[Poll] Extending the 2021 Jam Deadline

Ya tbh we did not expect the concept to be as difficult as it seems to be. Quite a few people say they are having a ton of fun with it but it is just a lot harder then was expected.

We have an idea for a new way of handling themes planned for next year though we hope will strike a good balance of challenge and flexibility. We wanted to try it this year but with everything going on we could not implement it in time.

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Yeah…
I think the biggest thing is how the theme explicitly forbids certain tools/forms of gameplay (that being direct control)
I remember pretty early on when thinking about that, it occurred to me that not having direct control would mean certain types of games just wouldn’t work or wouldn’t be very fun. Like, I imagined how any sort of action game requiring the player to quickly react to things onscreen would be inherently less fun to play if you always had to manipulate the characters indirectly. Rather than try finding a workaround that’s “technically” hands off, I ended up deciding that it’d be easier and safer to just strike that from the idea pool entirely and go with something else instead

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Ya I can see that for sure, we knew it would strike some things like that off the board but we where considering from a higher level and didn’t quite consider how it would effect some things like that.

Yeah, as much as I enjoy the high concept idea, it is pretty tricky to work with. I freely admit that I’m interpreting the theme VERY loosely on my end to make it happen.

If there is to be an extension to the Jam I would settle on the smallest amount possible. Two weeks I feel would be too much of a distortion to the contest.

Personally I don’t see the theme as being so unapproachable so as to prevent a game from being realised within the original time - the current entries, few though they are, disprove that notion. It does however pose a question to the event runners for future jams: what should the focus of the jam be? To stretch developers creatively or to make easily implementable games?

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I share the sentiment that the extension should only be a few days, whilst I would absoultely hate for anyone to be left out, 2 weeks is already long by game jam standards. Just to be clear I’m not saying anything bad about the fact that the jam is long, what I want to emphasize is that it is a long time for teams to be concentrating intensly on a single project and it can get pretty stressful. Coupled with the fact that some like myself may have taken time off work/school to participate and may not be able to make use of the extra time may give some teams an unfair advantage. — That said, given that this is a community jam full of like minded and lovely people, I’m not as worried about the idea of an unfair advantage as it may seem. I feel it’s just something to consider, especially since we have a handful of entries that hit the deadline already. — I am almost tempted to say those entries may deserve a little token of appreciation for managing it? — Regardless, I know you guys will do what you think is right and I’m willing to accept whatever that may be. Best of luck admins :slight_smile:

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Personally I don’t like the idea of a two week extension at all; two more weeks of crunch time sounds like special hell. Even one week seems excessive. I can see giving it the weekend, and that would certainly make it easier to polish my own work, but we do all have other things we need to get back to.

The first year of the jam I had to take a DNF on my solo entry. Staying up late to work on assets and then doing full shifts at work I ended up getting sick, and my schedule slipped. I realized that I couldn’t rescope what I had into something I would be proud to post in the time I had left and honestly it felt terrible. If a couple more days can save some of us from that then ok, but let’s not forget that this level of production is not sustainable long term and people’s health is going to start to suffer if we push them too long.

2 weeks is a perfect extension due cramped schedules otherwise. Me personally after tonight’s update I feel like my game is finished but I might add more if folks still feel like more can be added :slight_smile:
Either way I would like to thank the folks supporting the game so far and I wish everybody luck during the extension.

as long as this is just a one off I am fine with ether. it is important to keep jam times relatively short so devs are forced to keep the scope reasonable, but if deadline extending becomes common then that will be ruined

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Very glad about this, because I realized I was way too ambitious to make this within the deadline. Two weeks GREATLY appreciated

It may be long coming, but I believe you’ve opened a can of worms by allowing any extension. You’ve shown the community that if enough or if certain people petition you to change the rules mid-contest you will oblige them. This casts doubt on your impartiality and whether any future Jam deadlines will be adhered to.

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To be very clear here, this was solely my idea as I (incorrectly) thought that with this jam falling in the academic year, a lot of the devs participating would appreciate extra time.

The fact that people are taking offense to this offer (emphasis on offer because this was literally all this was) to attempt to reduce their stress level is becoming slightly ridiculous to me. Literally no one petitioned me or any of the staff in any official manner, and I’d like to make sure the record is set straight there.

I naively thought this offered extension as an expression of good will towards the community and its devs to try and reduce the impact of the timing of the jam (and to be clear, the whole issue was the timing, not the theme as some of you have assumed). It was not my intention of offering something people would both be disappointed in us and angry with us, and I’m going to be blunt, I’m a bit exasperated with the response we’ve been getting for this offer.

But that was the whole point of this poll was to gauge people’s thoughts on an extension. Which, at least to me, is clearly negative.

We apologize for offering the option for an extension, it has clearly rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

I would ask the people that are angry/disappointed with this offer, though, to try and not make assumptions. We’re always available to answer questions, and of course invite criticism, that’s the whole point of this exercise.

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I think a “No extension” option should have been added. There are around 200 responses to the pol, which means that a lot of us are staying silent about all this ordeal but still have an opinion. The “no extension” folk are pretty vocal, maybe with actual numbers, we can figure out a result???
To be honest, I’m pretty sure our game will meet the current deadline, but I’d be fine with an extension if people do wish for it.
I think it’s too late to modify the pol, but yeh

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I would have to defend the belief that the theme and devs saying that they needed more time was the reason since the original post mentioned them both

also it does seem less of an offer when there is no “No extension” option in the poll (making the people that think that there shouldn’t be an extension need to speak out about it)

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Then perhaps a separate poll off of this topic with the three options then? To at least see whether there is enough of a majority to say no to either a one or two-week extension.
Personally, an extension isn’t an issue, there is a good reason why one can be allowed (as well as a reason against it) and there are benefits and consequences for it. If anything I believe it’s the devs wanting to participate in the Game Jam that should have the choice of either taking the extension or not.
I doubt this will become common later on, it’s just the perfect storm of events that lead to this situation.

This is only part of the picture. Anyone that was on the discord would be able to back this up, but it started with a decent number of people on the jam chat discussing how they were having a hard time with, again, the timing of things this year. I said that I could potentially run it by the rest of the team to see if there’d be any interest in extending the deadline.

Literally no one asked me to do this, I offered it based on a lot of the responses we were getting. At this point, @grotlover2 spoke internally with a few devs to see what their initial thoughts on an extension, ones we knew were participating since they’re the ones most effected. This was not to get a final answer, this was to get some perspective from people within the competition itself. This is what he is referring to, we apologize if this gave the impression that we have some sort of cabal in the back that we listen to.

This is why we are collecting all feedback, and we apologize for the poll not including a no extension option. Given the time sensitive nature, we wanted to get it out as soon as possible, and this led to it being less than optimal. That being said, be assured that the option for no extension (other than the one to Monday to account for the poll) is being considered alongside the others, as well as any other options being thrown out here.

And no, the theme was not the main cause of the issue, regardless of what is being said. It certainly is for several people, and we fully admit it is a harder theme. That was the intent, but the major reason we’ve heard time and time again is literally just the timing. We’re making a commitment to make next year’s jam fall within the summer to avoid conflicts with the academic year.

And given how displeased a vast majority of the community is with this, you can be assured this offer for an extension will never be given again.

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To be frank, in my opinion the vitriol surrounding this is not due to the offer so much as it is the theme and handling of this event. This is the first time many of us have had to vent about our dissatisfaction with the theme, at least publicly.

If you’re feeling exasperated @kilif, think about how many first time devs felt when they saw this high concept theme and knew they had no chance of doing this.

I could be wrong, but I think the sentiment is probably 50 percent based in fairness, and 50 percent based in wanting this event to just be done so we can move on.

Also if the issue was purely the timing of the academic year that’d mean our only devs are college students.

Hopping in to share my 2 cents. In my opinion, this is the best and most creative theme we’ve seen yet. It’s one that really challenges you in the way that more “traditional” jams do. So I really want to give credit and appreciation to the admins. That said, I understand how this would feel inaccessible for some, especially those using RPG Maker, Ren’Py, etc. But I hope that some of the reactions we’ve seen here don’t discourage creative themes in the future.

A couple days of extension feels reasonable and offers a chance to add that extra shine and polish, but I wouldn’t want to go beyond that. (I need a break at some point lololol)

I appreciate the jam, the poll, the discussion surrounding the theme, and everything else you admins do for the community here.

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I am not developing to this jam, I would just like to point something out, if it wasn’t already.

This change in length completely messes with the mechanics of a game jam event, and this is particularly impactful to first time developers, which I believe are the most vulnerable group here.

The whole point of a jam, and the shortness of it, is that people who want to make something can just burst through in a singular effort. This means engaging people in something easy that they feel they can do, then suffer through, and then be done with. In the end they get a taste of what game development is like and a shiny new thing they can show to people in exchange for a few nights of sleep. Overall this is really motivating and emboldening, and it is a great way to get people into the hobby.

If the jam were to approach one month, this would changes things. Entirely new issues are introduced into the mix. Goals are no longer so close that you always tell what is “the next essential” you need to do, and managing your own work routine becomes it’s own effort(and an important one at that). For all intents and purposes, this is what developers of personal projects on the site are used to dealing with, but this is not something jam goers expected. Basically, not a jam.

Whatever is decided here in the end, in the future I expect better management of these things so that inexperienced people are not turned away from these events. At the same time, I trust the team here will take this as a learning experience and do better next time.

Best of luck to all devs in your projects all.

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I don’t think the theme is really such a massive problem. Examples of games like this are very common, going all the way back to something like Lemmings or Mario V Donkey Kong. Perhaps some people who already had a game in mind and were preparing ahead of time were thrown for a loop, but from the dev’s I’ve talked to, it hasn’t been a difficult task, even across multiple engines. I believe the fairness is the major issue.

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