A note of discussion about what makes a horny game good.

‘Platformers are the golden ticket’? Personally, and I’m old enough to remember Donkey Kong being released, I’ve never been much of a fan, and have no desire whatsoever to work on one.

We all like different stuff. You don’t like RPGmaker? That’s fine, but no reason to criticise those who choose to make games with it, just as I wouldn’t complain about someone choosing to write a platform game simply because the genre doesn’t appeal to me.

Most games in this fetish, and after all, your original post was about ‘horny games’ rather than games in general, are made by small (often one person) dev teams on a budget of next to nothing. We have to use the best tools we can afford. RPGmaker, Ren’py, Twine etc. may not be fantastic, but they help people who otherwise wouldn’t be able to do so create a game.

You said in one of your earlier posts that you’ve never made a game and aren’t likely to because you’re about to (and congrats on this, by the way) become employed? Well, here’s a suggestion – try it. Juggle working full-time with creating a game as most of the devs in this field have to do. Spend a few weeks or months or even years, working your ass off in your spare time to create something you think is half-decent. And then see if you still feel like criticising those who use the available tools to make something they otherwise simply wouldn’t have the time or resources to create.

Whether you mean to do so or not, all you’re doing here is insulting the people who create games.

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Good grief, the levels of pettiness and delusion here are off the charts. Have we finally arrived at the core of your anger? Is it RPGMaker having the audacity to be a beginner-friendly game engine?

If so, we get it, you hate RPGs and you hate RPGMaker. So here’s an earth-shattering suggestion: don’t play them. It really is that simple. People are going to create games that they want, not what you want, and screaming at them to “be better” like some selfish, entitled prat isn’t going to change that. You see platformers as the holy grail of game genres? Then go ahead and play them. Quit shitting on everyone else who dares to have a differing opinion on game genres than you.

What a miraculous turnaround, it’s almost as if that’s exactly what people just starting out with game development do, and have been doing on this very site this entire time. But somehow doing that in RPGMaker instead of Unity is wrong?

Nobody is forcing you to play games that include the default assets, yet here you are complaining about them. Creating or commissioning custom assets for a solo dev indie game, particularly one involving a fetish with a limited audience is a huge time and money pit, it’s far better to focus on getting your game actually working with the framework built out before you make it look good. In the case of your “golden platformer” example, why do you think every Unity tutorial keeps the character as a plain capsule instead of spending 100 hours learning the intricacies of Blender to create a fully unique character model? If you’d made a game of your own you’d… oh wait.

Your lack of game dev experience is showing again. Even for someone with a decent grasp on the coding language used in your game engine of choice, it can take several weeks of your free time to create a functional tech demo of a game. And if you’ve never coded before, expect that to be multiple times longer. Do you really want to go through all of that before even starting to adapt it towards a fetish? Especially when working on it part-time on top of whatever else you’re doing in your life with no pay?

…have you forgotten which website you’re on?

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I see what the problem is here. You’ve assumed that RPG Maker is a platform that fundamentally requires no skill to use, and therefore, people making simple games in it aren’t learning anything. It might be wise, in the future, to avoid making this kind of hasty assumption about a topic that you have little to no experience in.

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I can’t tell if you’re being serious or just trying to create an argument/put down people on a forum that is comprised of devs and players that enjoy those developers games.

I’m going to assume from your post history that the only experience you have with game dev is some light modding that didn’t end up working and you don’t know intricacies involved in developing a game.
Doing something from scratch is an incredibly daunting task and requires a lot of work.

Most of the games you see here are solo projects made in peoples off time as a passion project. It’s incredibly rare to find someone who can code, write, create art assets, and have the vision for a deeply engaging gameplay loop. That’s why engines like renpy and rpgmaker are so great since they take away a lot of the coding requirements and give you a platform to deliver the story that you want to share with others. Don’t get me wrong, there’s still a lot of work that goes into bending those engines to do more than a basic story, but it’s an excellent platform for first time devs or people who can’t create systems from scratch for one reason or another.

I understand that seeing a flood of games using these engines can be a bit dulling (personally I don’t touch rpg maker games since I don’t like the gameplay), but that doesn’t mean they’re bad by any stretch of the imagination. These platforms can still deliver some amazing stories and wonderful art.

Your statements are boiling down to “these games I’m getting for free from learning hobbyists aren’t equivalent to AAA titles and therefore shouldn’t have been made”.

You said

I’d, love to make a game, and I have a fairly decent knowledge of code theory: The only issue is, I’m about to become employed, and I do not wish to put myself through the pain of learning to program at this moment.

but I’d urge you to pick up unreal/unity and make a hit game from scratch before making such a close-minded opinion like this again.

In the meantime, if you’re going to complain and put down devs for sharing their work as they learn and progress then I’d suggest leaving the game development forum and sticking to the steam home page since that’s where you’ll find the AAA polish you seem to set the bar at.

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Quit shoving words in my mouth. I literally am saying: “Unique game design elements = better game design elements.” I don’t get why that’s so complicated and difficult to understand without taking offense to it?

RPG maker games simply consist of a poor gameplay loop and pad filler content onto games that most of them, as said earlier, don’t need it. I’m not asking for a Triple A title, I literally am just saying: “Hey, your game is better if you make it do something different than literally >50%(rough estimate) of the games on this site.”

Admittedly the language has been confused and it’s been difficult to find the words to get across the message of what I’m trying to say, but this is it. Don’t be offended on behalf of others when I say “Heyo! Your game? I think it would be cooler if you didn’t use the default RPG maker combat system without any modifications. It’s really boring and bad.”

Because you know what? Noone has argued with me and proven my ACTUAL point in that is wrong. Everyone just keeps jumping and poking at different shit that I’m not talking about.

The facts as I have them are:
RPG maker’s combat is boring.
RPG maker really incentivizes devs to use their premade bad assets instead of building their own game.

The second one can be argued that “Oh, Devs don’t have time to-” Develop their game? Like I get it. Appreciate what you have. But this isn’t something good. I’d argue all it does is dilutes better projects and puts more space between games with different, more exciting premises than RPG maker,
And the number of RPG maker games out there teaches new devs that it’s a good medium to start making a game in when in reality that’s like telling someone an automatic muscle car with the muffler cut off is the best car to learn how to drive with. RPG maker is a trap that pulls in new developers and makes them want to develop for their dead-end game system that ultimately has a very real skill ceiling that limits what you can and can’t do because of the already existing parts of the program.

This entire thread is full of strongly held opinions and beliefs on your end. You have a very particular way you feel about things and to be honest you pass off your feelings as if they are established facts, which they’re not. They are just your opinions. That would be my main issue and take away from all of this.

There are plenty of examples and things that we all could have discussions about, but honestly as with most of your responses, they don’t seem to be set on discussion and debate. But rather making your points and feelings clear and changing minds. The way people think and feel about things are not so easily changed just like anyone responding here to you won’t shake how you feel about anything you’ve said here.

While your intent and intentions may of been a PSA and “call to arms” for new developers, the thing you disclaim this post is not meant to be, is actually how it comes across in my opinion.

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Man, at this point I have to honestly wonder if you’re trolling. You can’t make all these sweeping statements full of incredibly misguided opinions (presented as universal truths that you keep assuming everyone “reasonable” will agree with) and then get mad at people for actually engaging with what you said.

You want an argument? Here’s one: Video games are for having fun. If people are having fun making their games, and other people are having fun playing them, then they’ve done everything required of them. If you’re not having fun, but other people clearly are, it’s an issue of taste, and you need to focus on seeking out games that meet your tastes better instead of complaining that stuff exists that you don’t like.

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I’m all for in depth analysis of game design and what makes a good game, but honestly this whole post kinda breaks down into “a real game will be unique and have effort put into it”.

On the one hand, those are good things to aspire to. On the other hand, in terms of good actionable advice this is close to useless. I do agree that being more thoughtful about your game’s systems tends to make games better. I don’t agree that people should wait until they can code and design all the systems from the ground up to make and share games. I certainly don’t begrudge people the time and effort to make even a simple game with no original design elements given how hard it is just to make something functional at all.

This is one of the big reasons people keep ragging on you for not trying to make any games yourself, your advice is a bit hollow when there’s no experience behind it of how to actually do these things.

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Have I called anyone out and said their game is terrible? Like specifically? Or did I make an argument that RPG maker maybe isn’t the best platform to make games on because it interests the developer in replacing almost all of the interactive mechanics with all the same interactive mechanics as other RPG maker games?

That’s not even a sweeping statement, nor an opinion. That’s literally what RPG maker is made for. If you can prove that wrong I’ll concede.

Honestly? I wanted to say something at your last post but I got caught up in the rest of the discussion.

I thank you deeply and truly for being considerate, calm, and rational compared to some of the more heated posts on this thread. It really means a lot to me.

That being said, while I’d say I agree, I… kind of don’t? Like, I didn’t say I never TRIED making a game before. I just never finished making a game before. and frankly it’s all too easy to make a simple game, I just never finished because I had to clean out my hard drive and didn’t feel like starting over now that I have the space for such a project. If I had to be honest? I think RPG maker is great for one thing: it allows people without time or experience to program a full game to make it be more than it would have been without it.

But the comment here that I’m making is “Games are better when they’re different, and there’s SO much RPG maker content on this site that all the games, regardless of their caliber or the amount of work put into them, get swept under the rug into the growing mass of RPG maker games and won’t reach as wide of an audience.”

Like it’d be one thing if it was one RPG maker game like every now and then? But, it’s like an actual whole deal. Like you could actually reasonably make a separate storage in this site for RPG maker games and it would be decently populated.

And that’s the thing! Based on how RPG maker works? I could build their default combat system and map system in probably a couple weeks, if I just figure out how I’m going to index the tiles on the map so they’re accessible. I could always do it tloz:alttp style, but something tells me that’s a bit… dated, of an approach. Might not look just as nice? But it’s not as hard as people are making it out to be.

Edit: typos

Like, for real, if anyone was actually discouraged by this, like, It’s all too easy as long as you know how code actually works- if you can think like a computer, coding is no sweat at all. Like absolutely I don’t know how else to get that across other than,

https://love2d.org Go download love 2d, It programs in LUA, a simple starter programming language, it’s absolutely free, and you get to spend as much time working on your project as you want. That being said, there’s some interesting things that allow you to duplicate and change things while they’re already in the field, it’s commonly referred to as Instancing. If you want multiple of something, look up what a “For Loop” is for example.

I guarantee you, it’s not too terribly hard, and it’ll help your game be more popular purely under the premise that it’s not Another RPG maker game that’s going to get swept under the rug.

Also, Love2d wiki has like an entire database of all of the commands that it works with, so you can do pretty much anything with it. It’s just easier to make 2d stuff with it (It doesn’t have 3d model rendering capabilities iirc, you’d have to build them from scratch)
https://love2d.org/wiki/Main_Page

I wanna bring back up this specific gap. This is a discoverability problem. Like I said earlier, forums privilege new and recently-updated things. Good games usually take a longer time to make and don’t have as frequent updates, so without an active fandom banging the gong, they can get lost in the shuffle.

The options as I see them are:

  1. Raise the skill floor
  2. Find ways to surface good older games amid a flood of new ones

Your posts are all pro-option 1, many of the folks have argued against, nobody budges, no point in re-litigating.

Option 2 can be done in parallel. Grotlover is working on a new version of the site with new architecture. Maybe this will also include ways to help good older games stay visible among the beginner projects

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I’m not saying to raise the skill floor, I’m mostly just saying people should avoid using RPG-maker because I think it’s not that great, and for observable external reasons, it’s also not great for devs using it either.

<Insert some gif of some kind of assimilation movie clip or somethin’ idk>

I’m not really, against the fact that old things get buried. That’s the nature of how forums work, it’s intentional design. What is an issue is that 7 games can come out in a week, and 5 of them all use the same combat and exploration system :v I’d, extremely be down for getting games Slower if it means they’re Better. In the words of Shigeru miyamoto, a delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad.

I suppose, this all loops back to my original point I wanted to start this thread for:

Kink games should strive to be More than just a quick jerkfest. Like it’s one thing if you’re horny and you make a little interactive experience, I do that every now and then in Neos, so I completely understand, but at the same time, like, strive to be bigger than that. I know this community is just full of little hornballs, but, hornballs don’t make for good games.

This all came up because I was talking with my friend about making a game and they just kept shooting down every idea I came up with because “it’s too much thinking, not enough horny.” and after having some discussion on game design we pretty much came to the conclusion that, they don’t believe kink games should be more than a quick fapfest, and I starkly disagree with that.

I’m not saying to raise the skill floor, I’m mostly just saying people should avoid using RPG-maker because I think it’s not that great, and for observable external reasons, it’s also not great for devs using it either.

Which would inherently raise the skill floor. You don’t seem to really grasp the implications of what you’re expecting from people. Additionally, you’ve never actually provided any concrete evidence that RPG Maker causes all these alleged problems - you just kind of make that claim over and over and expect people to agree with you.

Or did I make an argument that RPG maker maybe isn’t the best platform to make games on because it interests the developer in replacing almost all of the interactive mechanics with all the same interactive mechanics as other RPG maker games?

That’s not even a sweeping statement, nor an opinion. That’s literally what RPG maker is made for. If you can prove that wrong I’ll concede.

The default features in the RPG Maker database aren’t meant for everyone to use in all their actual games. They are examples included to demonstrate how different mechanics work, and give people something simple that they can play around with while they’re learning their way around the software. Essentially, they’re training wheels; ones that you can and are expected to eventually replace or customize for your own needs.

Kink games should strive to be More than just a quick jerkfest.

This is the opinion you keep harping on, and it’s ridiculous. We’re talking about porn. Yes, it’s nice when it’s fancy and engaging. The issue is that you’re claiming it’s intrinsically bad when it’s not those things, when clearly, that’s not as universal of a standard as you are trying to force it to be. I believe the universal standard is “it needs to get someone off”, which plenty of these games do fine.

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The thing with RPG maker and Renpy is you’re not just getting a fleshed out baseline to work with but you’re also getting something that works and has very few bugs (unless the dev realllllly does something funky). These platforms are giving devs an option that lets them not have to worry about 1) learning to code and 2) deal with debugging and environmental factors.

I really want to lean in on that second part here. I mainly work in unity and whenever I’m creating a build I have to test it on multiple windows machines and resolutions to make sure even just the UI scales right. That’s just for windows, I’m not even going to attempt publishing to mobile, mac, and linux. If you go with these other options you get something that works on all platforms at the click of a button. The amount of dev time that saves is huge and it increases the potential audience pool.

I believe earlier you mentioned you take issue with people using the default sprites that come with RPG maker. I agree with DreadRoach in saying that these default assets are like training wheels, they’re showing how the engine can be utilized. But if you have someone who doesn’t know how to draw then can you expect them to bang out spritesheets for multiple characters at different weight stages? It would be cool if everyone had custom art for their games but that requires either a skill that someone doesn’t have or money to hire an artist which someone making a game for fun/free probably isn’t going to want to invest in.

That being said, at the end of the day games are just a platform to tell a story. The creators that use these engines want to share their stories in a way that isn’t a book and these platforms give them that option to do so without having to learn a new skillset. You state kink games should be more than just a quick jerkfest but dude, it’s porn. Nobody here is out to create the next Assassins Creed or anything, they have an idea in their head that they think is hot and hope others will enjoy it too. If you don’t like the platform that story is told on then there’s nothing wrong with that, people have preferences, but calling it a bad game is just not the move.

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No it wouldn’t. People are still welcome to use RPG maker games. RPG maker games don’t suddenly become banned worldwide if you agree and say “yeah, maybe RPG maker sucks at least a little bit.” I’m not saying RPG maker should never be used, or that it should never have been invented, and you and a few other people seem keen on absolutely shoving those words down my throat as often as you possibly can.

I’m saying, “Hey, RPG maker, like, isn’t great, and the amount of stuff that people use to sub out actual parts of their game that would take little to no effort to program, basically means they’re not using it as training wheels, they’re using it as a crutch. Using it as a crutch is bad. Training wheels are fine.” Like. Do I need to provide evidence? 'Cause I can, if you absolutely need me to, but like. Just look at the fucking games made in RPG maker.

2d top-down exploration game with frequent combat encouters that consist of fighting one or more enemies in which each enemy and player has an action to make once per round. Usually this consists of a generic “attack”, “Magic”, “Guard”(which is mostly useless unless an enemy forecasts their attack) “Run”(Usually the best option) and “Items” (You usually have health potions which you’re free to spam through any combat encounter you get sticky in.) Sound familiar? Can you see the samey, flat, black transparent backgrounds with white borders and generic text with the flashing fight button in your mind? Can you see the pixel-art characters dancing around on the maps? Can you hear the rattling of characters being typed into the text box?

If so, congratulations, that’s because all of these games use the same features. In other words, There’s a lot of developers who are just making one-off games without much quality, spamming them on the forums. They’re almost always completely identical to one another. Plus, if you expect creators to replace these mechanics later, why aren’t you just as upset as I am that the only thing majorly on these forums is exactly that: The same, barely modified mechanics that host very little difference in them, almost as if each game is just another entry in the same franchise that doesn’t know how to move on.

And, let me get this clear. What I’m saying is exactly that: Fuck what you just said. Fuck making your game Just Porn. I’m not saying Don’t make porn, I’m saying, If you want to make an actual game? Don’t shy away from unique mechanics and real head scratcher puzzles if it means your game gets more unique and engaging content just because “It’s too in-depth for porn”. I’m saying be fuckin’ better than a 30 minute experience. Be fuckin’ better than some flat level with no replay value. Don’t let other people tell you what your game CAN’T be because it’s “Too Much”. Strive to be what you Want your game to be, not what you Think other people want your game to be.

And if the game you want it to be is an RPGmaker game? Then sure! Start small! But as you said, as a real developer, you should expect yourself to toss the training wheels in favor of having something that really speaks to you and your players.

Learning to code is not as difficult as people make it out to be. It’s code Theory that is the real head scratcher. Because the wiki can tell you everything you need to know, if ONLY you know what you need- You need to have a start, and an end goal, and the code you write has to figure out the bridge between A to B.

Also, interesting, but, why not just make the game a fixed resolution and allow squash/stretch scaling so it can be fullscreened without worrying about how many pixels are on their monitor? Unless, of course, there’s so few pixels you can’t read the text… but still at that point, that’s out of the question.

Also, your question is off-topic here. People can reuse whatever visual assets they want as long as it’s not illegal, Even if i’d prefer if people made their own art for it.

Again, fuck what you just said: Don’t force a game to be porn if you don’t want it to. If you want to make porn, make porn. But if you want to make a real, non-porn game? You don’t have to be a triple-a fucking title to stand out, literally just make a game with an interesting premise and kink stuff in it as a staple mechanic- You don’t have to inherently make things obtuse just so every user can access it. You’re not working at nintendo: You’re making a game for YOU, and as such you come first, other people come second. The games people make don’t have to be shoved into a fucking box of “porn” and left to rot if it’s slightly too complex to figure out with one hand on the keyboard. It’s clear that, yes, I am alone in my thoughts with this one, though. Other people clearly don’t understand my take on it, despite me trying to get across the message over and over again. I’m not saying “Don’t make your game x”, I’m saying “Fuck conforming to a standard. Put in that mechanic. Make that enemy do some whacky shit. Make this puzzle a little harder than reciting my ABC’s.” Because every time you pick that option to not mellow out your game for the sake of others? Your game becomes more, and more based- More and more of what you want it to be.

@irenicusmw You’re either a troll, or a complete idiot. Your ‘arguments’ are so ridiculous that I can’t decide which.

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Couldn’t come up with anything clever so you just attack my ego instead of my points proper? Seems to be a trend on this thread :T

Convince me that my points are wrong. Go ahead, do it. I dare you to spit out the words “RPG maker’s combat system is good and interesting and engaging without any input from the developer to majorly change it’s mechanics.” And then find literally ANY points that back it up other than “haha funny number go up.”

Refuses to give evidence to back up their claims despite claiming to have evidence

Demands evidence to consider any points that are made against their argument

Damn I think we’ve been got guys

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