you have to talk to the dog in the house. you have to tell them that you found burgers and then talk to them again once you have 4 of them (even if you had 4 when you talked to them about it)
1 Like
see you rat on the double jump, but, you do realize the charge bubble works exactly the same functionally though, right? the only limitation is you need a wall and the fucking patience of a saint to do it unless you’re some kind of fucking genius. The problem is that it takes fucking forever to get perfect to accomplish, and with the current game setup you have to go through every platforming challenge again any time you die or go back to save your progress. Imagine if in order to cross the “pointless connection” bridge you had to charge bubble across a large gap and every time you missed the bubble and fell you had to backtrack through three rooms (which the enemies respawn in) every time you fall. and every time you have to save or every time you die you have to do it again just to get back to the room you want to actually be in.
But you’re saying it’s bad because it’s “unoriginal” (despite being the gold standard for a very good reason I highlighted in my earlier message) and because it “causes” level-size bloat (which is actually the fault of the developers designing the levels and NOT the double-jump. (but also like, who cares if the areas are a little bigger?)). Do you actually have any idea how to address these concerns? or are you just ignoring them because the obvious tried and true solution is “cliche”?
Because I too functionally like the charge bubble. I just think it being programmed to operate off of 17 different variables is crazy and unintuitive for no reason and the fact that the hitbox to jump off of it being a hair-trigger that you MUST land exactly on top of really sucks. If the hitbox for bouncing off of it was like, 1/2 of it’s hitbox as long as you’re holding the jump button? then I’d understand a little more. but as it is, landing on top of a projectile that is fired diagonally, has gravity, inherits your velocity when fired, changes speed on how fat you are, vanishes if it hits spikes or falls through the level, has a pixel-thin hitbox for doing what you actually want, AND doesn’t actually fucking work unless you hold the jump button when landing on it is a bit overkill in my honest opinion for what is supposed to be a staple mechanic players are going to be using a lot in this platformer game. ESPECIALLY when there’s a glitch that just gives you exactly what you want at the cost of being jank as fuck to pull off…
I understand Buckler will not be implementing a double-jump but I will also not stand for mindless tarnishing of the name of double-jumps, what with how much I’ve researched game design, against someone who clearly has not researched why double-jumps are so good in the first place. The other reason I didn’t bring up is because of how double-jumps are so flexible they can be added in almost any game as a cool as fuck traversal gimmick. In “VVVVVV”, the double-jump takes the form of a gravity flipping mechanic. In “Hollow Knight” the shade cloak gives you a sideways double-jump that still restricts your vertical movement still but extends your horizontal movement. in “Celeste”, the double-jump takes the form of a eight-diirectional dash and later becomes a two-charge dash, allowing incredible complexity in it’s level design for exact precise micro-inputs. With that said, I ALSO consider the charge bubble to be a type of double-jump mechanic that improves your mobility!!! it’s just a really fucking convoluted one that is really finicky for something people will want to do far more often.
And, with all due respect, I’d like to ask specifically why no foxtime? Do you have a reason? Foxtime isn’t really seen as an actual mechanic in most games. It’s literally just quality of life that gives players the benefit of the doubt, so I’m curious why you decided you would not like to add it.
1 Like
Consider if you could flip midair in VVVVVV, it would be a very different game wouldn’t it? Very notably you cant, famously used in The Hard Way. No coyote time either
2 Likes
Hmmhm ive been thinking of speeding up the ledge climbing, maybe making it so you could jump up too? There are some aspects like the bkunce at the top of the climb that are bandaid fixes on the player falling through, id like to iron it out because i like what the climb adds as a platforming contrivance
1 Like
The burger optimization is definitely the rosetta stone, i will not be finishing this game till i can sort out a structure im happy with for the burger routes! Slowly im coming to terms with the fact the change might be a large one, maybe having far fewer burgers and each one requires a big planned out route, and no longer having weight linked to the burgers? Thats got problems of its own, ill keep pondering…
2 Likes
Im glad you made use of the gun swing, i think its so cute that the mechanic allows for stuff like that…
The bubble hitting the bugs is definitely not intended, if you dont have the bugbullets… should be an easy fix though!
1 Like
The tutorial is weirdly buggy if you dont just immobilize and teleport out, for reasons i dont fully understand… ill keep looking into it but for now uh, just dont do that i guess lul.
The ball, maybe a small width increase could be worthwhile tho i like where it is, ill try some stuff. The hitbox being lower as some ppl said wouldnt actually help much since you can hit it from inside as well already, not just by falling on top if it
2 Likes
I know that it fills the same function but it plays differently. instead of just pressing the button twice you have to do a timed jump where you land on something small and moving. it’s a fun challenge and a mechanic that can be mastered.
it also puts limitations on the player’s mobility and they can’t use it in combat “willy-nilly”.
I’m not saying it is bad because it is unoriginal. I’m saying I appreciate that they are doing something different than what most devs are doing. I think devs should not do stuff on auto pilot or because “x game had it” and should think about why the game should/shouldn’t have something like a double jump in it. there are tradeoffs when you give the player more free form movement
and yes I do think double jumps makes the levels bigger (except for games where the platforming isn’t the point). if you don’t make the the gaps bigger and the cliffs higher that means that all jumps are trivial since you are only using half of your possible jump height/length. the problem with big levels is that unless you fill it with something then the gameplay density suffers, meaning you have more time when you aren’t making meaningful decisions
I think this is your concerns more or less from reading your posts (you can let me know if I missed some)
if you don’t want to that is totally fine, you don’t have to 100% a game (or even play it) if you don’t find it fun, but some people do (like me :) ). it is ok for players to just go “I ain’t learning that shit”
also I don’t really see how a double jump would fix this issue. sure this particular jump would now be simple but that is because the challenge was deleted. the design space for this type of challenge still fits the game and with a double jump a similar challenge would just require you to also do the double jump with the bubble jump. like if you just add the double jump then the challenge is just removed and if the challenge gets changed so it is kept then you still have to do the bubble jump that you don’t like just with a double jump as well (more or less)
I agree that it is more finicky than it needs to be (as I mentioned in my post). personally I would probably make it so if the player sprite overlaps with the bubbles sprite (excluding the outline) while falling downwards they would get the bounce and probably also make it so you always get the same bounce rather than you getting a more sideways boost when landing on the edge of it. (obviously I would have to playtest this theory)
but again if someone doesn’t like it then they can play something else and that is fine. it is ok for games to focus on a niche, you just have to accept as a dev that some people don’t want to play it
the way I would mitigate this is simply make the bubble jump a thing earlier in the game and make it required. that way it would be communicated to the player that this is something you will have to learn to play the game. if they don’t want to then they can play something more to their taste
this is an issue with the genera as a whole. any though challenge should probably not be put in a high traffic area unless the dev wants their game to be brutal. an equally hard double jump section would suffer the same way as a bubble jump section. and if you die after completing a challenge but before you save you just have to do it again. it is a bit extra pronounced in this game because of the fat track home, not the bubble jump. if you had to do something equally hard but you had a double jump then it would be just as frustrating when you die.
I mean I’m just saying that not every platformer needs to have a double jump. if that is me tarnishing the reputation of the double jump then I guess I’m sorry. it’s just that most of the time I don’t think the double jump adds much of anything in a pure platforming space other than it is easier for the player to change their mind mid jump.
the double jump (and air dash) in hollow knight only gets interesting to me in combat scenarios. those movement mechanics I feel are way more suited to make the combat more quick and frantic. the downwards needle slash bounce thing is far more interesting to me in pure platforming scenarios because it is harder and more precise to do. but it isn’t really a double jump (and neither is an horizontal airdash or flipping gravity) it fills a similar function but it plays very differently
when I’m thinking about my favorite games to do platforming in they don’t have double jumps (super metroid before the space jump, mario 64, tf2 rocket jump maps) and the games I like the double jump in are usually way more combat oriented (super ghouls n’ ghosts, tf2 scout, hollow knight fight sections). both having and not having a double jump have strengths and weaknesses, and “artistic merit”. I personally like the restrictive nature that not having it provides, since you have to be more careful and think ahead when you jump since it is a more committed state, but it isn’t to everyone’s taste.
there is enough space in the world for both types of games
4 Likes
I found a bug where if you kill the dragon after dying (a bubble bounced into him while I was dead) this happens
not a big deal now but might cause issues when a “real” ending is in the game
also I wanted to fight the dragon while at max fat but you can’t get into the arena while at max fat >:(
gotta heal right when you enter the lair and that isn’t as cool (I thought I had to take a long way round first, which would have been a cool extra challenge, but I still couldn’t get in)
3 Likes
hummmm i see… i wonder how i’ll get around that cutscene bug, i’ll take a look. Again the progression I’d like to do a lot to alter, in general I feel the current level is too far from un-navigable at max weight, when I’d rather have the player spend some time at that size!! know that I’ll be looking into it
2 Likes
Regarding the implementation of a double jump or not, i understand that to appeal to a wider audience, it would be best to have a double jump but since the game contains fetish content, i think its best for the developer to make what they want and keep their vision.
I can also see the having skill on a fetish game can be seen as unnecessary, with stuff like Tribal Hunter, where no matter people will say its a fun platformer, people will dismiss it just because of having fetish content on it.
It might be hell to code, so my only idea could be to turn the bubble into a temporary safe spot to jump onto, kinda like the bubble in Animal Well but yours would only stop when someone stepped on it and would stay in place temporarly (maybe have less time depending on weight). That way you can keep the aiming and shooting the bubble and try to make cool angles but could be easier for everyone to use.
An alternative as well would be keep shooting the bubble with cool angles but make it like Metroid Freeze missiles and when you shoot it again(either normally or with a specific upgrade) it would just turn into a specific temporary platform. This is being said by someone who never made a code for a game ever, so disregard it if its impossible on your game.
a “duct-tape solution” would be to delete the players projectiles when they die and/or make the dragon invincible after the player dies
probablyy, i may as well destroy the bubble on death anyway
I’m glad you found this, I was experimenting with this while trying to trigger the immobilization cutscene but it was REALLY awkward to do intentionally. I hadn’t considered just dying instead.
also to be honest, in my older versions of this game the charge shot was a built-in ability, it was the core mechanic of the game like you describe partway thru the message! at some point a pal testing said it was a bit overwhelming to have it right off the bat with everything else going on, so I decided to have it be an early powerup. I might make it acquirable even earlier, or necessary to get first before stuff like the bug bullets (although in this version the bubble shot mostly makes the bug bullets unnecessary… the bug bullets in general are just something i put in since I drew the sprite and thought it would be cute)
I have no idea what I’m even supposed to do to get that upgrade. I think I’m supposed to use the inflated butterflies enemies to fly her to the other side? But they fly way too fast, and by the time I reach the top, they have already floated out. Also, I hope there’s a way to eventually destroy these barrier wall things
Keep exploring, it should make sense once you have some other upgrades.
neat angles you can get if you aim up and turn around
2 Likes
ohhhhh i’m so happy. you’re picking up what i’m putting down, this is the vision.
1 Like
version 0.2.4
2 Likes