Gain Jam 2022 is LIVE!

There is a lot of overlap between both of them but they are not exactly the same. Its subtle but the main difference is in their wording. NG+, as the name suggests, is about being able to carry something over between playthroughs of a game. While progressing through failure is about having some sort of mechanic that progresses or advances a player when they reach a failure state.

While on the surface they look like they could be the same thing, there is subtle differences that make that assumption a trap. That being said it does not mean some one cant craft a single mechanic that does satisfy both cards due to their overlap though.

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I figured that’s what you were going for which is why I really suggest adding some examples to more clearly define the differences between them. Would suck for creators to make mechanics they think work only to not actually be on the same page as the judges.

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Two points on that I’d like to make on that, echoing that of last year:

  1. There is no strictly defined “best” interpretation of each wildcard, and comes down to the strength of conviction in the creator’s work. if someone makes a strong enough argument that they satisfy a card and can convey that through the game then that can be a persuasive interpretation.

  2. If people have doubts, issues or enquiries of any sort we encourage people to discuss them with us and the community. The Discord server is a great for this purpose with the ease of dropping in. This is as much a community event as it is a contest so we would like to see all community members support one another so that people both have a good time and do the best that they can. If people don’t open up and ask things, they’re missing out.

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I feel a good example of both is a good idea.

For NG+: I imagine it to being a kin to Driver: San Francisco. When you have completed the story for the first time, throughout the first playthrough you have unlocked and bought cars, abilities, garages. And in NG+ instead of taking them all away, you still have access to them, even though you are technically starting the game again. So you have access to powerful cars, you have all of the end game abilities, and the garages are still yours when you have started a NG+.

For Progress Through Failure: I imagine it to be like Noone’s Fatty Text Adventure, where if you lose all your health or get too fat, you wake up in a safe haven or safe place i.e. Their home, the hospital, and can still progress with that same character. Or, maybe even like, i believe it’s called, tavern of the spear… I think. Where if the enemy overwhelms you, you get a CG of the fail state, but you can still keep going with all of your skills and perks, you just have to lick your wounds and not start all over again. I imagine it’s not like Skyrim or Fallout where if you fail, you go to a previous checkpoint or save, it’s more that you can continue after the failure, not reverting back to a save to try again, it’s like it’s part of the story or adventure in itself, and not a complete, you have died, go back to your previous save and start again. It’s more, you have failed and lived to tell the tale, now get strong from it.

At least those are my interpretations from those special wildcard challenges, but people can interpret them differently and still be right, just as long as it can be justified, i guess.
I hope this helps you and anyone else who may be confused by them too, like I said, these are my interpretations of the wildcards, you may have different ones and still be correct.

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Eh, I think the Progress Through Failure needs to be from a mechanical perspective as well, I’d consider what you described in Noone’s RPG to be more just a ‘second chance’.

If I had to come up with an example pertaining to weight games, say the player character becomes fed up with their weight and the consequences it brings, and resolves to try and get their life back on track, exercise plan and all. But it’s just so darn hard getting into shape, exercise just leaves you out of breath and diets just leave you so hungry and unfulfilled. One day their will finally breaks and they slip into their old habits even harder than before.

Though this could be hard to engineer into directly leading to outright failstates, the theme of a player’s pursuits backfiring on them falls into them I think.

Feel free to call me out if I’m misunderstanding the situation though

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Both interpretations are valid! :white_check_mark:

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I’m glad to hear, and figured the interpretations aren’t rigid, though I am confused as to how one would be persuasive about the interpretation. Will creators with more loose interpretations be asked to justify it? Or is the game itself the argument?

Also for the record I have spoken with some creators who have asked for clarification in the Discord to be met with responses along the lines of “maybe” and not real definite responses which is part of the reason I am here in the first place.

From where I’m sitting it seems like the decision has been to intentionally not elaborate out of what I assume to be a fear of influence or cheating, but I feel like at least being a bit more specific would be helpful.

But I also wish to underline that these statements are not an attack on the Gain Jam or any staff. I am very pleased with everything about the Gain Jam and also note that the total scoring of the wild cards will likely only impact the top five or so games.

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To clarify, I had meant presenting the strength of argument via the game itself.

Just a reminder to all that if there are questions or issues to raise about the Jam, including any concerning the Wildcards, to post in the appropriate channels: either in Questions, Help, & Info - Weight Gaming here or over on Discord.

We want to ensure that everyone is able to enjoy the Gain Jam to the fullest so if there are any questions please don’t be shy in asking us!

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I want to expand a bit on Alex’s answer and see if I can answer why we respond with “maybe” to most requests for clarification since I usually handle most of the inquiries as well as to why we have been so resistant to providing hard examples.

Now before I begin I think it is important for me to define that most devs that contact me directly are less looking for clarification and are instead looking for an answer to if X idea will work. While I do get a few that do ask for legitimate clarification, in the case outlined above, about 9 times out of 10 it is asking if an idea will work. With that established I can move onto the explanation.

The reason for us having to respond “maybe” to most devs asking that question is there is a difference between the concept and the implementation of the said concept. You see, a concept can comply with the theme/card on paper, but may have been implemented in such a way that it no longer lines up with the theme/card. This can happen to any concept, but is especially true for ideas that ride the line which tend to make up the majority of the questions we answer directly.

In short, since it is so highly dependent on how the idea is executed we can only reliably respond to questions like that with “no” or “maybe” with maybe meaning we see at least one possible way the idea could be implemented that would comply with the theme/card.

This is true to some extent. We are restricted in the type and detail of feedback we can give directly to devs in order to keep things fair. Due to this, we can only really explain things at a very high level, which is another reason we want to limit our influence.

It is really easy to unintentionally send a dev down a bad path since we are really limited on what we can say to them. This is not the only reason as to why we want to limit our influence but I will get a bit more into that in the next answer.

We understand this, but dont quite want to list specific examples as we don’t want to risk poisoning the well, per se.

The point of the cards is to encourage devs to push themselves as well as encourage lateral thinking. We feel if we where to provide some examples it would at best narrow what devs think they can do with the cards and at worst encourage devs to either copy or try to adapt the example in some manner.

Also, the wild cards are considered challenges end of the day and providing examples we feel would cheapen that fact.

The thing to keep in mind is there is no hard answer we are judging these cards by. We judge primarily on what is written on the card so as long as we feel the solution in question complies with the letter of the card the dev will still get points for it.

So in short the solution does not need to be correct, per se, but just “technically” correct.

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Totally understandable, thanks for taking the time to explain!

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And it’s over! Man, so many submissions close to the final hours. Good job to everybody who made it in time, I can’t wait to see what people have made.

Edit: Maybe it’s safe to close this topic now because of: Gain Jam 2022 has FINISHED!

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Say, think it’s possible to add a community vote for Best Minion out of these games?

My vote would go to Kit-Kat

Unfortunately, not on our end. Our hands are usually full with just trying to judge the number of entries XD If some one wants to make a poll for that we wont stop them though as long as it is clears its an unofficial thing

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i hope Manic mimic wins. :innocent: :slightly_smiling_face:

When will the nominations be announced?

I don’t know if there is a set time. I think it only happens when all of the judges have played and evaluated every game, which might take a while.

After 1st round judging is done is the soonest we could do it if we do announce them. We may wait until all judging is done before we announce anything this year.

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How is judging going so far this year? I don’t mean to sound impatient, I’m just curious how far along it is.

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It’s going

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