Well this is certainly a step. In which direction though? …probably sideways.
I don’t want to rehash everything @TheWell-Being has said in my own convoluted form of speaking, so I’ll just be blunt: when it comes to GenAI your hands-off approach will not work. It hasn’t worked for years, has allowed resentment and division to fester between users, and now committing to simply quashing the arguments sooner than you used to will not change anything. Arguments will still spring up, users will still get heated and now you’re going to have more people getting angry for what they will see as unjust punishment.
Through the noise of the most recent boil-over, the one thing I think everyone could agree on was that we wanted clear rules. Whether that be full support for GenAI, a ban on all discussion on GenAI or a ban on all GenAI in general, there needed to be some line drawn in the sand to stop the constant feuding between both sides. You’re going to upset some people no matter what you do, but going with this (again) middle of the road option pleases nobody and upsets everybody. It keeps the doors open for exactly the sort of scenarios that @TheWell-Being pointed out.
You say you still see benefit in discussing GenAI and exploring the technology, but honestly, what benefit? When has there ever been a calm and reasoned discussion involving GenAI on this website? People are too emotionally invested for that to take place, whether that be from a developer/artist standpoint looking to protect their trade, or a consumer standpoint seeking higher quality products. Those who are fervently against GenAI will always come out to attack those who support it, which will inevitably draw those supporters into fighting back.
And as for not feeling like you’re in a position of leadership: you own this website. You couldn’t be in more of a leadership position if you tried. Maybe you don’t feel that way because you don’t speak often, maybe it’s something else, but when you do speak people listen. This recent series of threads is exactly proof of that. You have people replying and conversing because the owner of the website is opening up and discussing the various issues people have had recently. These responses don’t come from nowhere, they come from everyone’s shared love of this website and desire to see it thrive.
…with the exception of those brigading your DMs. Unfortunately, that’s just the internet for you.
On everything discussed so far, I am seeing a lot of positive change. With this though, it just feels like more of the same.
It’s cyclical. One project gets targeted, users argue, more projects get targeted, more users argue, moderation steps in then a huge Site Feedback thread gets made and more users argue still. Everything calms down for a few months then we get back up for another round.
However, the fact that we haven’t seen such an explosion in over a year now is I believe in part due to the promise for these threads. It’s not as though projects with GenAI have stopped appearing, and people’s feelings on the matter certainly haven’t gone away, so I do feel as though people have been holding off to see what these threads would say. That’s important, because it tells us that (at the very least some) users here were willing to put their beliefs aside for a while to see what an official ruling would hold. That means people still want to see positive change for this website, whichever side of the argument they fall upon.
But going with the “we’ll stop these arguments sooner” approach goes against all of that. You’re treating the symptoms, not the root cause (okay, you’ll never threat the root root cause, but we’re talking within the bounds of this website). There needs to be a solution that stops these arguments before they begin.
If I somehow haven’t made my stance abundantly clear already, I absolutely want to see this website and the overall community thrive and flourish. It’s such a rarity to find a space online like this, and my complaints have come from nothing but love for how amazing this place is overall.
Personally, I would push for a ban on all discussion on GenAI. I just don’t see how it brings any benefit to anyone. Users get pit against each other, and (at least publicly) it seems to be the largest source of moderation work. Why allow something that is so clearly divisive and anger-provoking when nothing of use comes from it?
Yes, the development of GenAI is unethical, and yes, unless you’re using one of those rare public domain models then everyone who has used GenAI has participated in “legal theft” to some degree. But there are also a bunch of games that never would have been made without GenAI, and developers who never would have become interested in the hobby for the same reason. It does also lead to a lower barrier of entry and more “slop” games, but I just see those as the next phase of all of the basic unfinished Quest and RPGMaker games. Same newbie projects, now with added visuals.
As a secondary goal, some clear guidelines on tagging threads would be great. Regulars like myself can keep threads tagged correctly (and I do try to keep an eye out for them), but only if we happen to see those threads. If the thread authors had a clear set of guidelines by which to tag their threads with, I believe that would reduce at least some of the annoyances people have with seeing projects they aren’t interested in/would otherwise have been filtered through their ignored tags.
Just before I finish, in regards to the points @LurkingLemming brought up: I do share similar concerns, but I would classify that as a broader site issue, not GenAI specifically. As such I’ll hold off on talking about it in case it gets addressed later (and also to save my own time. It’s taken me over 2 hours to write this?!).
So in summary, I just don’t see this approach working. I’d love to be proven wrong, and for everyone to actually be civil and respectful, but it was proven how naïve I was when I talked about the Gain Jam last year. Continuing as you are with a slightly sterner frown just isn’t going to stop this issue or make it go away. A line has to be drawn, otherwise we’ll just end up with another one of these threads in a year’s time.