Apostles (Latest Update 0.11: July 2024)

My level of hyperfixation has elevated to “stop having fat sex, I’m looking for lore.” Ok, big theory time…

Cynthia stated that she didn’t use “random human souls” to make the apostles. I’m going to take “human” in this instance as including elf and beastial. I did wonder if she used her own children but they seem more like candidates. Also I don’t think the timeline adds up- apostles are older than the ~230 years of her children.

She used the gods themselves, creating the Niss in the process. There are 14 Gods, 7 Niss (anagram of sins) and 7 Tuvires (anagram of virtues).

2 Likes

A very interesting theory! Can’t say publicly whether you are all, partially, or not at all right, but it’s a cool theory nonetheless! Thank you for looking at the game with such a critical eye!

1 Like

really big fan of lily at the end of this update! pretty excited to see where it goes!

3 Likes

@BubblegumCandy1945 Thank you! She’s a ton of fun to write for!

everything around her is sex and fat people i like to play with lilly!

1 Like

Interesting. The Apostle of Lust is essentially unaging, yet also keep the normal lifespan. Is that correct? Also, Willow is the Apostle of wrath, not gluttony. Despite that, the symbol of gluttony, the symbol of her sister, has certainly had an impact on her waistline. She has ballooned from 120 lbs to just over 300 lbs in a month. I can’t help but wonder how Gretel was impacted. :wink:

1 Like

There’s also GHOST SHIPS around Lily, you just can’t see them!

Actually the Apostle of Lust doesn’t have a normal lifespan, as any complications from old age can be easily healed by their powers.

2 Likes

Thanks. It does make me wonder why Lily is up nine pounds, but I certainly won’t complain.

I do hope we get a scene with the legitimate Apostle of Gluttony. Gretel, not Willow. If being the bearer of the symbol can make the Apostle of Wrath put on around 180 pounds in months and like it, what would the legitimate bearer think of her figure. :wink:

1 Like

Probably because fat is considered a cosmetic effect and not an affliction.

1 Like

Cynthia’s name starts with “sin” and I can’t believe it took me this long to notice.

3 Likes

I can’t believe that it took me years to get the joke about Auburnwoods’ “doubting Thomas”.

3 Likes

Not my most subtle of jokes, but it makes me laugh.

I can’t believe I never even thought of that connection until you said it just now…

6 Likes

I lost my save a couple months back and decided to finally replay the game and try the new update and I gotta say, it was excellent and replaying the game reminded me just how incredible this game is. I’ve been thinking about it all the time since I first played it about 2 years back, from the fattywank, to the plot and characters, to the worldbuilding, etc. It’s just fantastic and has genuinely become one of my favorite pieces of media I’ve ever experienced.

The replay itself was so interesting since I could see so many more details I never noticed on the first playthrough both because I already had future context, and because I was looking for it in every line. I now understand everything so much more than I did on my first playthrough (particularly everything surrounding Gretel), parts I was waiting for further context already had it and I just didn’t notice/realize.
Which leads me to my major theory I’ve come to after finishing my replay which is:

The original Gretel was/became The Angel.

I might make a bigger post on it, but for now I’ll wait.

Either way, I can’t thank WaxeRed and everyone else who has worked/supported this project enough. It is something that is truly incredible and has genuinely enriched my life.
Not sure how people are finishing the game in “8-10 hours” though, My first playthrough took me 32 hours and this one took 26 lmao.

3 Likes

26 hours…
WORTH IT!!!

3 Likes

@Shade2
Thank you! Seeing kind words such as these always brings a smile to my face! I’m so happy Apostles could leave a positive impression on you!

Yippie! That’s what I’m going for! Knowing what comes next is great at letting me put in a little tease here or there. I love stories that are worth reading twice, as knowing the end gives a completely new perspective of the events leading up to it. Even if it’s for stuff that won’t be revealed for years or decades!

Ooooh! First time I’ve seen someone give this theory, I believe. Can neither confirm or deny, but I look forward to seeing your full thoughts on it later!

CJ deserved just as much credit as me, as he does so much amazing sprite work! And there are several others helping with music, gameplay, beta testing and more, so please check the credits file if you want to give them proper props! Couldn’t have done it without them.

DANG! Way longer than I thought! I guess I really like to ramble with my text XD.

1 Like

Progress Report for August 2024!

July it was an owie in my tooth. August it was an owie on my foot. More specifically 2 weeks ago I slipped coming down the stairs and fractured a foot bone! Luckily my recent apartment move put me closer to family and I didn’t need to drive myself to urgent care. Also luckily it was as minor of a fracture as a fracture could be, little pain and no need for any kind of surgery. I just will be in this boot for another 2-6 weeks. Silver lining, at least my writing hands have yet to get hurt!

But onto the game news! It’s Atlas season! And for better or for worse this is going to be a LOOONG season. I mean it as no exaggeration to say this will be one of the longest, and most complex updates CJ and I have ever worked on. But I think it will be worth it in the end, as while the first Atlas update was fine, this update is really when the game will become something special.

But art takes time, and art takes extra time when it’s me lurching between passion and procrastination! Everyone in the community has always been quite patient with my slow workflow and I’m always grateful for that. You guys are really the best. I know this Atlas update will test that patience but I hope it will be worth it!

And we won’t stay silent as we work, we will be putting out teasers and trailers at least once a month! Small stuff here and even more on Patreon. We also might release the update in parts so there’s something to play sooner.

For example, Patreons saw the base of this image months ago! (Made by an anonymous commissioner) But the caption and some shading was done by CJ!

Also done by CJ was the first set of fat art CG for one of the characters, but that one is staying patreon only for now!

In closing, hope you all are doing well, and be careful not to trip on stairs!

7 Likes

I am intrigued by that theory. Would this make her Death, to ride alongside Famine, War, and Pestilence?

2 Likes

I have finished cooking! Here are my mostly completed thoughts on my theory from my last post.

Disclaimer: I spoil quite a bit in this post so if you haven’t played apostles,
WHAT ARE YOU DOING PLAY APOSTLES NOW!!!

*Edit: I cleaned up the post a bit and added an image for a later section, if you’ve already read the entire post, you don’t need to read it again.

The TheoryPosting

My theory: The original Gretel is The Angel.

I will also be referring to OG Gretel as just Gretel and the main character Gretel as Willow in this post (Sorry Gretel) to make it easier for everyone.

To start let’s begin with our formal introduction to the mechanics of the apostles.

In this image we see the 7 apostles for the 7 sins listed in the image, however, Willow has a white bunny above her. Now, we wouldn’t know this at this point, but the angel wore all white, including a white mask with bunny ears. It could be a coincidence, but it seems more likely to me that The Angel and Willow have a connection to each other. It was confirmed in the most recent update that Willow is the Apostle of Wrath, but she seemingly also gets power from gluttony as well, either because she is also the Apostle of Gluttony or because she has Gretel’s ribbon. Next, we’ll focus on Willow’s mental break for a good bit.

There’s a lot to talk about in this scene but let’s start with the Willow saying that Gretel “brought her back” and gave her the ribbon. This tells us that Gretel had the power to revive people and we only know one other person who could do that, The Angel. Now, could people other than The Angel (such as Gretel) have the power to bring people from the dead? Possibly. But I don’t Gretel could do such a thing without it being a bigger deal. Alexandria shows that even white magic can’t revive people, and we can assume that white magic users are the most powerful magic users because of everything that characters like Sebastian, Cynthia, etc. say about it. Which, again, means we only truly know one person who can revive someone, The Angel. The idea that Gretel is a separate person and could just revive people as well just seems a little far-fetched to me considering everything we know.

Not long after that text box we get to this one. The Angel appears behind Willow after her hallucinations showing Willow killing Gretel (Well, I believe this part represents not Willow killing Gretel but Willow killing her “sisters” for/because of Gretel based on the conversation Penny and Willow had later on.). Either way, this is another moment connecting The Angel to Willow. Afterwards there are a few more lines mentioning Gretel bringing Willow back and how Willow can’t bring people back like Gretel can, which only furthers the idea that Gretel could revive people (Again, a very rare trait.)

Later on, we get to this scene. We know that Sebastian’s home was a sort of “home base” for the saviors, and we also know that The Angel isn’t here anymore, so it would not be surprising if The Angel/Gretel took her own life within Sebastian’s home. (I should also mention that during Willow’s mental break she also fantasizes about hanging herself just like her sister). Speaking of which, Gretel was close enough to Sebastian to hang herself in his own home but couldn’t revive him when he was shanked and forced Clair to go all that way to reach The Angel? Interesting. And following that,

This scene confirms even further that The Saviors knew Gretel, and her focus on throwing a stone in the air. But also, why would she think about Gretel? If she wasn’t The Angel, why didn’t she think about Sebastian or anyone else who was close to her? If we consider the idea that, again, Gretel was The Angel, it makes sense that Clair would think about her during a moment where she is meeting up with the other living saviors to fight against the “apostles” once again, there would be lots of feelings nostalgia and all that. I also want to highlight that we’re never shown The Angel with all the other saviors, and we’re also never shown Gretel with any of The Saviors. While usually a lack of evidence can hurt an argument, I feel that this deliberate hiding of these characters being around others only makes me more suspicious. The Angel left after losing at poker? How convenient eh?

The last coincidence I wish to mention is Sebastian bringing up that The Angel burnt down Cynthia’s library. Now, considering The Angel’s devil may care attitude (heh), it could just be that she burnt it down because she didn’t care about what useful information could be within, and just wanted to destroy any trace of Cynthia. But, if we consider the idea that The Angel saw firsthand what Cynthia did to herself and her sisters, it makes a lot more sense doesn’t it?

Moving on to my last point, I wish to focus on the symbolism involving The Three Furies. We have The Black Fury, Famine. We don’t know a lot about her outside of that sadly. The White Fury, The Apostle of Sloth, Pestilence. We know that The White Fury is Penny, master of The Gomorrah, and previous apostle of sloth. This also adds credence that if Gretel was the apostle of gluttony that she could give that power to Willow since we know Sebastian is now the apostle of sloth, yet Penny still lives. Finally, The Red Fury, The Apostle of Wrath, War. We know for certain that this is Willow. Now, most people can recognize that The Furies represent three of the four riders of the apocalypse. But we’re missing one more, Death. We know that the Furies were all children of Cynthia, and who do we know that has control over death? The Angel. Who was also a child of Cythnia? Gretel. The fourth rider of death “defecting” to the saviors would be a fitting way for Cynthia to lose, especially when it was essentially the most promising pair of twins facing against each other. This point is obviously the most speculative but also, to me, is probably the most important. It just fits so well don’t you think?

And that is all! I know this post is not perfect and if anything is confusing, please tell me and I’ll try to elaborate or edit the post. There’re some things I could’ve mentioned that I didn’t feel were as necessary (The idea of throwing a stone in the air and having it not come back down and the idea of fighting against death no matter both representing impossible tasks that both characters focus on), and I almost certainly missed/forgot some things, but I felt like this was good enough to post given the time I spent on it. Thanks for reading!

5 Likes

It’s an amazingly thorough deep dive, connecting so many scattered scenes and moments into one theory! Can not publicly confirm or deny any of it, but I will reveal I enjoyed the heck out of reading it!

3 Likes

Damn, that sounds really plausible. Hats off to you!

2 Likes