Having read that, I have no idea whatsoever how they’d manage to enforce those rules consistently.
‘Imagery focused on ribs, thigh gaps, concave stomachs’? Well, that’s 75% of the models on Patreon gone at a stroke. And, err, hang on a minute. aren’t those criteria exactly what society dictates is fashionable, attractive and therefore acceptable? How on earth do you define what a ‘concave stomach’ is? One that’s 0.01mm smaller than a convex stomach?
Eating competitions are allowed, but feeding isn’t? Cool. All we have to do is add a disclaimer to anything we create saying it’s not feeding, it’s an indirect part of an eating competition. Or we can simply claim that we’re promoting body positivity by fattening up skinny people.
Honestly, I’m no legal expert, but this is so ambiguous that I’d imagine a lawyer would have a field day with it.
As others have said here, I’d imagine this is aimed more at ‘real life’ scenarios, such as stuffing on cam or posting vids of extreme weightloss.
By the way, Ko-fi is 100% out for an alternative platform. I have first hand experience on just how unreasonably puritanical they are. Anything that’s even PG rated will get you permabanned. By their own admission, they don’t even check stuff. They rely on bots and algorithms.
As someone who is subscribed to a subscribestar member who outright does doujin sex scenes, I’m pretty sure that’s just to say they have the rule, not actually enforced.
Force feeding can refer to a partner forcing food into the feedee through various method, such as using tubes and funnels or by hand, but it can also refer to a single participant forcibly stuffing themselves past the point they feel full, again using various methods such as feeding tubes and funnels or simply eating too much.
Just because force is applied doesn’t mean an act cannot be consensual, in much the same way consent is applies to other forms of BDSM kinks via pre-act discussion, contracts and safe words.
I figured this might be the case, but didn’t want anyone to take any unnecessary risks.
Why is Paytreon so popular? Is no one interested in doing donation/monetary investment systems themselves because of these websites?
How do you take payment? If you use a credit card, the credit card processors charge a LOT more for what they perceive as “adult content” because of a combination of “we can” and the argument that people charge-back adult purchases more often out of a combination of guilt or misdirection (saying “I didn’t buy that, my card must’ve been stolen/account hacked/whatever”). If you use EFTs, people are more reticent to buy because they’re directly giving you their banking information and may not trust you to keep it safe or not misuse it. If you use crypto, that immediately cuts out every person who doesn’t want to go to the trouble of changing their own currency into something they’re highly unlikely to otherwise use - imagine if you had to pay for only ONE purchase a month in something like rubles. If you use a third-party payment processor, they’re under pressure both by various national-level legal hurdles and lobbying groups to kick off “adult” content - and if they ban you, they often keep all your money that’s in their system and force you to hire a lawyer and sue them over it. Which you probably can’t afford.
Major commercial “subscription sites” are the lowest barrier of entry, and push through enough money for enough varying reasons that groups like PayPal or Mastercard don’t want to cut them off entirely (because of the size of the revenue stream). But that only works because of the collective volume. If you strike out on your own, you’re going to find quickly that online payment systems are not friendly to anything even remotely controversial due to the companies that WILL wind up involved. VISA and Mastercard being the biggest ones. If they decide that people can’t use their cards to pay for your offerings, you’re basically dead in the water - and various moral crusaders KNOW that, which is why they’re constantly trying to push them to cut off payment processing for various adult industries.
Excellent answer. This is also why PayPal is the most widely used platform for direct commissions of art (outside of patreon), due to the low barrier to entry & simplicity.
PayPal doesn’t allow nsfw content either though. It operates on the client and seller not disclosing information that would get either accounts banned. You have to have personal information set up and displayed and depending on the sellers account you need a lot of identifying information including tax information. This is already a problem for some people. I wouldn’t say the bar for entry is lower by any means.
While I get that a lot of artists use it. It’s not like any nsfw artists are opening advertising what goods and services they provide through it at risk of an account ban.
Yeah paypal is even worse than mastercard. paypal will actively steal money from a bank account of a nsfw content creator. mastercard will just ban future transactions.
For what it’s worth, it may be a good idea to emphasize the fact that we make works of fiction. No real people are involved in or subjected to the subject matter at hand.
Speaking of PayPal not allowing nsfw content, looks like Gumroad just updated their policy to no longer allow sexually explicit content due to PayPal and stripe
Can’t speak for anyone else, but (apart from their awful conversion rates) I’ve never had a problem with Paypal so far.
Yes, I’ve heard of instances where Paypal refuse payouts to people (Ko-fi did this to me when they closed me down. They confiscated all the funds in my account and refused point blank to pay out as I had allegedly breached their terms and conditions), but I’ve never had any issues with them.
As has been mentioned above, it’s a fairly frequent occurence for people to purchase adult content and then, for whatever reason, attempt to refund it. During my usage of Patreon, I’ve had numerous emails from Paypal saying such and such a person has disputed a transaction, and they need further details from me to resolve the issue. I don’t think they’ve ever not resolved the matter in my favour, even though the information I’ve provided, and, I suspect, the information provided by the person disputing the transaction, makes it obvious that I produce NSFW material.
I looked at SubscribeStar & remembered that I don’t use it because they don’t accept PayPal. I use Patreon to support some creators because they DO let me use PayPal. PayPal may not be perfect, but honestly the fewer websites I put my card info on, the better I feel I’ll be. If an entertainment website or service doesn’t let me use PayPal to make purchases, then I don’t think I’ll make purchases from them.
Welp I’m retiring we shall see again if it’s going to
Well I’m mean if there shutting down stuff well there might be leading this way towards this site well welcome to the world of chaos
99% of the problems with these payment middleware solutions is that they are at the mercy of credit/money transfer companies that DESPISE adult content. There’s little or no incentive for Patreon to ban adult content on their platform UNLESS one of these decides to clamp down on it.
I’ve spoken to folks trying to build democratically-owned alternatives to Patreon (comradery.co) about this and they ran into the same blanket prohibitions despite wanting to offer assistance to folk that were seeking a safer space for adult entertainers.
this isn’t a lawsuit yet. But it could be. And if we get enough artists on this mailing list, it might actually be a large enough suit to DO something.
