no not really it does sound cool tho
I have spent some time trying to figure out ways to tone him down. I don’t wanna rush anything yet since I don’t wanna release him after making him weak.
He has quick frames, huge combo potential, and moves that are hard to punish. IMO, I think he could be balanced just by toning down his unpunishableness and maaaaybe his combing. He can still have the quick attacks. I feel like his unpunishableness allows him to play recklessly without having to think and plan ahead like the other characters.
Then again, like I said, A lot of the AI characters don’t have to much problem fighting him (AI Jumba utterly destroys him MOTN) so maybe I’m just doing something wrong. I dunno.
I don’t even know anymore. This video ended up making me feel more confused than ever. It was a pain in the ass beating Rapid with Bertha, but it was just as grueling trying to beat Bertha with Rapid.
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That’s the thing he does have unsafe stuff but he also is quite safe on his lighter normals. The update that went with Akai changed every one to be negative on launchers and sweeps and Rapid’s running hip&elbow is very punishable as well as being one of his best ways to start combos. The thing that really the problem is the dive kicks and not just his. I need to make that something the player wants to use so it can’t be something too easy to punish but it can’t be too strong either. I’ll do more work on it today and maybe update the build.
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Recently got my old stick working on PC for GG Strive, and finally decided to see this game I saw floating around a try. Was way more fun than I was expecting! Pretty damn good animations, and the moves made sense! Great work!
3 Likes
Been poking about at this for a while, been interesting try’na figure out what various characters can pull off. Decided to put a vid together of some of the combos i’ve pieced together. Some are more for flash than being optimal. They seem to mostly be true, but its tricky when the only way i currently know of to get a training dummy to tech out is to put them on Button Jam: Z in training mode, and thats not consistently first-frame.
Things i think are of note from this;
- A lot of this stuff is rather character-specific, given the extreme disparity between both falling weight, and the floor mini-bounce that allows you your 1 OTG (for instance both Jumbo & Makuyama are among the superheavies, but Jumbo has a much longer floorbounce state)
- Aroma’s light DP recovers quickly enough to infinite most characters in the corner, and poison damage being unscaled lets it ToD the superheavies. Poison in general just seems really powerful, both from her and Pastilla.
- Rapid’s s.HK has enough hitstun to link into s.LP or s.LK, and when combined with canceling s.LK before its 3rd hit leads to a grounded standing infinite.
- Pastilla seems to have an actual un combo glitch against some characters; Stun them mid combo after having already used your OTG, and land an EX blast from very specifically behind them. Far as I’ve tested it “drops” the combo between the first and second hits but can’t actually be blocked, resetting the combo rules.
- Not actually part of the shown combo, but… Pastilla’s 236236K causes the poison graphical effect but does not seem to actually cause poison damage or meter loss for moving.
- The hit reaction may be a set thing for Bertha’s clothesline, but how long it takes her to recover isn’t. Hit meaty for combos without OTG! Throw being a combostarter also means its a much much better followup to nj.8HP than charging up a 9-spin clothesline.
3 Likes
I just downloaded it a few days ago. I’m totally inexperienced at fighting games, and I’ve never played mugen, but it’s just so fun to learn the combos! I love playing makayama and akai
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Those combos are fucking sick!! I never thought about most of the combo routes you’ve demonstrated. I know this is an unlisted video but you may wanna show these off. Seeing users make up combos like this gives me life. It’s such a treat and it’s good to know the inhibitors I put in place to limit some things are working and the combo scaling is working.
I experimented with allowing big body throws to ground bounce to start a combo but I’ll probably take that out. I thought I measured frame data so that infinites wouldn’t happen but Rapid’s really surprised me. He does have end lag after his S. HK so I may have misjudged how much stun he would need. I’m gonna take a look at these vids while I work and I may be able to make adjustments.
Nice vid. Also some cool zero-to-deaths from Pastilla and Bertha. It looked like there was a damage hamperer for Jiggly and Rapid. It eventually came to a point where they weren’t doing damage.
Actually, it seems most characters are able to get something off their throws, though Bertha & Jumbo have by far the easiest and most meter-efficient time of it. Mostly haves instead of have-nots, thanks to various methods of converting off of OTGs. And again, it can all be WILDLY character-specific just due to the nature of this game. A list of what i’ve found on that front so far…
Summary
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Jiggly has to use meter, whether EX of launch super, but gets to convert anywhere off OTG cr.HK.
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Rapid can convert in the corner with an OTG cr.LK, or anywhere with EX Run-slide. However, the low… not-a-proper-Groundbounce, i still don’t know what exactly to term it, rebound? Yeah i’ll start using Rebound. Anyways, the low rebound means that the folks that already have really short rebounds cannot be OTG’d before they hit the proper prone-and-can-tech state. This means Bertha, Julian, and Makuyama.
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Enorma runs juuuust fast enough to chase after that awkward floaty and apparently invincible bounce she causes with her grab, so as long as she’s not center-stage she can OTG cr.LK to start her strings. If she is midscreen, or throws away from the corner, your best bet is to just buttbomb after them with 214HK for a squash. Or use the time to reload.
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Andy i’ve shown gets sweep conversions with EX shieldbash. Havn’t yet found anything meterless.
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Same with Bertha and her extremely dangerous normal throw. She can also get OTG cr.LK as a starter off her heavy commandgrab specifically, not light or EX, but since you get so much more off the normal why bother?
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Julian can grab, but can’t get a combo off of it in any meaningful fashion. Their rebound off the commandgrab is invuln, and even if you try and line up a meaty slide it won’t allow you to combo. Even the EX slide lets them recover near the ceiling if it OTGs, and all Julian can do is (invincibly) interrupt the slide to squish an opponent who isn’t even on in a hittable state anymore. I can’t get a proper supercancel off it, either… but i suspect EX slide skyrockets them too quickly for either super to connect.
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Aroma’s grab actually has so little hitstun, victims can recover in midair right before they actually hit the floor. I don’t think she’s punishable, but it certainly ain’t a combo and its barely even advantagious. But hey, poison!
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Pastilla gets actual nothing as far as combos go, but she doesn’t care because she gets all that time to set up meaty projectiles and start her, heh, suffocating zoning. Her vacuum grab does let her OTG midscreen with her Lv3 if it’ll ensure the kill and you’ve not been burning all her meter on EX gas.
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Makuyama can barely OTG lighterweights with cr.LK off his normal throw, and his heavy commandgrab. Doesn’t get much if not in the corner.
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Akai gets to combo against folks that aren’t Bertha/Julian/Makyama anywhere by just dashing after them and chaining cr.LK into fw.LP (for hitstun reasons) into magic. If in tthe corner, even those 3 get a combo started.
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Katrina gets simple cr.LK followups off hers, and even against superheavies she still seems to have some amount of untechable time on their prone state, allowing her to call her neutral assist before landing. The assist’s tailsweep seems to also combo off an OTG as a proper launcher.
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Lardo’s grab seems to just make the opponent invincible for their entire post-throw recovery, including however long they decide to just stay on the floor. No combos here.
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Twiggi actually has more issue with practical OTGs than she does a comboable throw. I’ve only been able to find s.HP (which has a huge blindspot for the OTG) and the squishing levels of 214K (which, because squish, means no combo). Even then, s.HP only rarely combos into something as fast as the blackholes super on a lightweight. Not that closerange seems to be her game in the first place, though i’ve not really explored her kit thoroughly yet.
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Zafta needs the corner to get anything, and that’ll be from an OTG s.HP. Elsewise, just sweep and be done with it.
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Violet can’t even OTG off her throw, being another one of those weird fully-invul states. She can, however, OTG off the extended down of her old-R.Mika style flipgrab. However, if you want the EX runslide to be consistent, you’ll need to input the directions backwards; you still count as facing the initial direction for the entirety of the move, even when they’re already behind you.
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Jumbo i’ve already shown, and all his other commandgrabs are squish-related so they don’t give anything. The only thing he sorta gets is if they’re just outside of the corner when hit by the running grab, which lets you cr.LK them and nothing else. Maybe the 222 super will work, but i’ve never been able to actually get that to come out. Its always the non-super version. Wonder if thats a move-priority problem?
2 Likes
I exaggerated the big body(Jumbo, Bertha, Jumba, Makuyama) grabs on the December release, but I think it looks kinda tacky that they bounce so high so I’ll probably revert that. allowing combos after grabs is fine. I just hope the combo scaling doesn’t allow it to be too strong.
Aroma’s grab using poison so it is hard to tweak that since the poison goes into its own code and I pretty much have to figure out how to put an opponent into a state where they can be poisoned.
Julian and Pastilla not getting anything off a grab are fine, Julian is meant to be defensive and as you stated Pastilla has plenty of traps to set up. I love the video though since I wanna stamp out infinites. And I may have to check Pastilla for balance and such.
1 Like
Fumbled together some more combos for some of the ones that weren’t in the last vid.
Gonna keep using Hide Details to make the sheer walls o’ text an opt-in thing for more in-depth comments.
Combo notes & other musings
- Jumba feels like she’s got a lot of loops from runstops & low divekicks, potentially even infinites if i’m not running into “Only X uses of Y move/situation” hardcaps like what seems to be on juggling s.HP. Also a particular case of the combo also being stage specific, because it looks like not all stage camera/wall boundaries are created equal.
- Fun sidenote: If you hit with the rising portion of her walldive when going forward, but hit back almost immediately after you leave the ground, she tries to latch onto the wall backwards… and because it then checks for the wall in the direction she’s trying to latch, she’ll sail quite offscreen and allow a meterless setup for that weird EX walldive juggle i set up in the shown combo.
- Violet’s combo is doable midscreen too, and i decided to keep it a meterless showing. Both j.LK and j.6LK (j.MK?) seem have gigantic amounts of hitstun on them to allow some funky relaunches. Also Twiggi tends to fall out of Violet’s upkicks easily.
- Nothing much to note about the Makuyama combo, though it may be difficult to fully parse that i’m immediately feinting his grab super for the animation canceling alone. Also managed to scale the damage so hard the Lv3 did only slightly more than the j.LK at the start of the combo!
- I could’ve added a lot more hits to the initial dashing jump, but I decided to go more for damage practicality instead of hitcount this time… it’d cut the damage by nearly 30%. The combo builds 20 pips worth of, uh… crushing power, which actually makes it extremely meter-positive at more sane levels of looping that stop at the maxout of 10, which would be 3 EX slides.
- Julian’s is rather self-evident, mostly being a showcase of his corner carry & just how quickly EX-Rush recovers.
(…well, a while of confused blundering later, i managed to restore the first combovid’s post after having accidentally overwritten it with the contents of this post via an edit instead of a full new post. Yay.)
3 Likes
It’s so impressive what you can find. I don’t wanna remove any of the stuff you discover and the combo scaling seems to work so it’s really about just making sure infinites get something applied to them.
I’ll try to do stuff about Akai being able to use EX to infinitely the opponent pop upward. And look into the velocity that Violet sends her opponent so Twiggi doesn’t fall out of it.
These combos are really impressive. Do you mind if I post links to them or do you want them to be hidden?
Nah, you can post links. They’re unlisted just to ward off those who aren’t specifically looking for this particular… type of content.
Prob’ly something you’ve already thought of, but do be careful if yer specifically altering Violet’s upkicks that you don’t hit a point where other characters are now aren’t being lifted enough themselves, what with Twiggy being so much floatier than the rest.
Finally figured out some fancier stuff for the last remaining characters, and some of these were real rough ones too.
Here Be The Notes
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Twiggi’s combo is a relatively basic drill relaunch into looped supers. She doesn’t juggle well with her standing normals once you’ve hit 2 cr.HPs, and even the blackhole special causes them to lose height as it hits, so this actually was the best way i could find to land the L3. She’s too slow to get anything good off her OTG in this case.
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- Sidenote: Notice the camera? Twiggi trying to backport in the corner while already with her back to the camera boundary actually drags the opponent along with her into the “closerange” camera boundary!
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Lardo gassin’ the place up, in spaced-normal & setup flavors. The one after the double-EX is particularly difficult… its a belch spaced in such a way that the full launcher string’s j.HP slams them to the floor without landing on the belch, then the cloud passes over them & I OTG with the j.HK and continue from there, all in a very short timeframe. Max damage scaling is reached real early in this combo, so the damage is hilariously low for the effort.
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Katrina can get a lot of height off her grounded juggles, and can rather easily loop her L-Upbust if it hits meaty enough. At least, until she finally pushes herself too far out to get the cr.HP’s first hit. A much more difficult variant of this combo involved getting enough height off the followup to the j.HP deathspin bounce to get back-to-back Upbust supers without OTG, but i couldn’t get an ender there that didn’t run into either not having enough meter to L3, or hitting some form of combo limiter that makes my followups whiff.
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Speaking of frame-perfect combos! Enorma’s overkill combo here has a few real nasty failure points… The timing for the start’s dashing j.HP,HK and the followup dashing j.LP is extremely tight and seemingly unbufferable, and mistiming when you cancel the last hit of the minigun super into another minigun could ruin your ability to get the missiles afterwards. I went through a few enders including one that involved a 2nd rocket upper into OTG, but they’d invariably make the wallbounce punch or any followup after that whiff.
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Finishing it out with a less intentionally-bugabusive Pastilla combo. The tricks here are in the subtleties; Start with the wallbounce early so that i can jump backwards with a j.HP. While the projectile part of the charged s.[HP] is still hitting, quickly do EX Totem then slam C+Z for the instant Lv3. If you do this too close by not having jumped back, the totem spawns facing the wrong way and will move into them and break the combo. Then its just a meant-to-whiff totem summon for metergain into her unique win animation. If this doesn’t kill, you can OTG into b.HP and spam j.LPs to run out the poison duration.
4 Likes
Those 3 TODs at the end where beautiful
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These are combo are sick! I got worried about Enorma’s combo, so minigun is coming out on the last frame of minigun, or are you just perfectly doing one after the other. Since they shouldn’t be allowed to buffer into themselves that’s an oversight on my part if that’s the case.
These combos are beautiful and I gotta share them with the others that I work with. Thank you for these. Your execution is crazy good.
No buffering, just timing. Minigun can cancel into either rockets or another minigun at any point during hits 2-31 (the bullett firing phase) and about ~20 frames after the last bullet hits. In the shown combo the first cancel is right before hit 31 so that it doesn’t launch, and the second is right after so that it does. Worth noting is that this isn’t base Andy either; I made sure that he used his super twice so that his defmod was 133%. Elsewise the first rockets woulda been a killing blow, methinks!
Also, you didn’t get to see the hours worth of failed attempts at these, heheh. Its mostly just piecing the puzzle of what goes into what together in various ways.
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idk if is related or not but i found a character named ‘‘Ra Lord’’ and it had similar style
also i cant find a download for it-
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