Project Bob (Ravenous' Uncle)

[Kitsune]

This one happens at the Bakery, when tasting the batter.

I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.

While running game code:
  File "game/p_work.rpy", line 112, in <module>
  File "game/pfuncs.rpy", line 497, in eventsfire
  File "game/pfuncs.rpy", line 463, in eventfire
  File "game/eventslist_work_bakery.rpy", line 12, in bakery_tast_test_batter
NameError: global name 'addha' is not defined

-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

Full traceback:
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
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  File "p_work.rpyc", line 112, in script
  File "G:\Stuu\Zityra\Secunda\Bob-Alpha1.2.2-pc\renpy\ast.py", line 914, in execute
    renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store)
  File "G:\Stuu\Zityra\Secunda\Bob-Alpha1.2.2-pc\renpy\python.py", line 2028, in py_exec_bytecode
    exec bytecode in globals, locals
  File "game/p_work.rpy", line 112, in <module>
  File "game/pfuncs.rpy", line 497, in eventsfire
  File "game/pfuncs.rpy", line 463, in eventfire
  File "game/eventslist_work_bakery.rpy", line 12, in bakery_tast_test_batter
NameError: global name 'addha' is not defined

Windows-8-6.2.9200
Ren'Py 7.3.5.606
Bob Alpha1.2.2
Sat Aug 15 00:22:02 2020

This one happens in the Bakery when the boss gives you doughnuts.

I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.

While running game code:
  File "game/p_work.rpy", line 112, in <module>
  File "game/pfuncs.rpy", line 497, in eventsfire
  File "game/pfuncs.rpy", line 463, in eventfire
  File "game/eventslist_work_bakery.rpy", line 34, in bakery_boss_doughnuts
AttributeError: 'RevertableList' object has no attribute 'push_back'

-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

Full traceback:
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
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  File "p_work.rpyc", line 112, in script
  File "G:\Stuu\Zityra\Secunda\Bob-Alpha1.2.2-pc\renpy\ast.py", line 914, in execute
    renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store)
  File "G:\Stuu\Zityra\Secunda\Bob-Alpha1.2.2-pc\renpy\python.py", line 2028, in py_exec_bytecode
    exec bytecode in globals, locals
  File "game/p_work.rpy", line 112, in <module>
  File "game/pfuncs.rpy", line 497, in eventsfire
  File "game/pfuncs.rpy", line 463, in eventfire
  File "game/eventslist_work_bakery.rpy", line 34, in bakery_boss_doughnuts
AttributeError: 'RevertableList' object has no attribute 'push_back'

Windows-8-6.2.9200
Ren'Py 7.3.5.606
Bob Alpha1.2.2
Sat Aug 15 00:24:20 2020

Also it appears that the dress is not working. The selected item does not appear in the right bar that shows equipped clothes and when the clothing outgrow dialog plays using the values of the previously equipped (and thus the currently displayed) items.

Would it be possible to have the measurements be displayed in metric as a toggle?

[zdeerzzz]

Both of those are fixed in 1.2.3, are you playing 1.2.2?

Also as of this moment i will not be making a metric version. That may change in the future. Simply rather spend development time elsewhere.

[Kitsune]

Ah, I didn’t notice that there was another update, sorry for taking up your time.

[Kitsune]

Something went wrong with the party. It always lists it as max number of friends in attendance, even if no one is selected.

With just one fiend this error happens. Also somehow the friends themselves are sometimes random or more than I selected to attend.

I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.

While running game code:
  File "game/p_party.rpy", line 6, in <module>
  File "game/npc.rpy", line 329, in scramblenpcslist
ValueError: empty range for randrange() (0,0, 0)

-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

Full traceback:
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
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  File "p_party.rpyc", line 6, in script
  File "G:\Stuu\Zityra\Secunda\Bob-Alpha1.2.3-pc\renpy\ast.py", line 914, in execute
    renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store)
  File "G:\Stuu\Zityra\Secunda\Bob-Alpha1.2.3-pc\renpy\python.py", line 2028, in py_exec_bytecode
    exec bytecode in globals, locals
  File "game/p_party.rpy", line 6, in <module>
  File "game/npc.rpy", line 329, in scramblenpcslist
  File "/home/tom/ab/x64lucid-deps/install/lib/python2.7/random.py", line 242, in randint
  File "/home/tom/ab/x64lucid-deps/install/lib/python2.7/random.py", line 218, in randrange
ValueError: empty range for randrange() (0,0, 0)

Windows-8-6.2.9200
Ren'Py 7.3.5.606
Bob Alpha1.2.3
Sat Aug 15 00:49:45 2020

[zdeerzzz]

Was just reported a few posts ago, it is fixed for the next version.

[cheddar]

Re; clothing sizes, the frustration with the generated clothing sizes is that they aren’t implemented in a way that makes sense either from a simulation or ingame perspective. Because measurements are tethered to BMI and don’t vary as you change size, the proportionate difference in size between the waist and both bust and hip size lowers over time. The resultant outcome is that as mentioned, clothing simply stops fitting both the waist and other body parts at the same time. Dresses are impossible to wear as a larger apple shape since nothing will fit both bust and hips at the same time. Stuff like that. The tolerances of clothing sizes feels incredibly small and frustrating.

You seem to have a tendency to blame players for having criticisms about the game which is a little concerning. While it is a good starting point, it isn’t a completed game and it’s important to understand that difficulty and frustration aren’t the same thing.

[zdeerzzz]

Measurements do relate directly to your characters measurements. The problem is that i sorta pulled a fast one and used UK clothing sizes otherwise if using US the size 1 would not be small enough for smaller characters. Also clothing size charts don’t all agree on how many cm or inches is a specific size is, especially when looking at brand specific charts. So really its just a free for all. For reference uk size 6 is a us size 2.

[RadicalSquidward]

I’m a fan of really slow burn style gains, so this game has me excited!

That said, I do have to agree with the people who say that it feels like there’s a lack of player agency when it comes to the choices of diet and exercise. Too often it feels like a false choice: either you picked an option that the game was already going to do so it sticks around, or it’s changed on you because that’s not what the game wants. Choices like the character’s reactions to outgrowing clothes or the bodies of party guests feel the most meaningful because there’s (assumed) consequences the player is directly and solely responsible for. Ironically, I believe the best change may be to remove the diet and exercise choices altogether and leave them entirely up to the game, then introduce more ways to nudge the character in the desired direction through random events with player input, and interactions on the day planner which I believe is one of the game’s strongest elements. For example: exercising before eating makes you work up an appetite, school before exercising means your character wants to stretch their legs and go a little longer.

[donnyboi]

I enjoy the game quite a bit, but I have some minor complaints / suggestions. Such as the heating not working on the last release, making it extremely hard to keep happiness up. One thing id like to see is events directly related to clothing status such as how tight it is and so on. but other than that I don’t have many complaints.

[Meh404]

The game doesn’t let me pay the bills (update) i close the game and it got fixed

[zdeerzzz]

@cheddar

You seem to have a tendency to blame players for having criticisms about the game which is a little concerning. While it is a good starting point, it isn’t a completed game and it’s important to understand that difficulty and frustration aren’t the same thing.

Ok, there seems to be some miscommunication, and i can see were i have gotten frustrated with some of the players/testers/feedbackers(?) of the game who have given feedback, but also maybe it’s not quite undeserved. First let me start with i have spent hours playing this game, in its various states that i have mentioned and know most of its mechanics in and out, so what appears obvious to me is not to others, i don’t always do the best at recognizing what should seem as an obvious mechanic in my game to a player from what is not. This has been a learning experience to me on that front and believe me i have learned a lot, for example what would need to be in this game as fara as a tutorial from all the feedback and comments here. Compounding this is the fact that this game is fairly complicated compared to most other wg renpy games that are visual novels. A piece of cake is probably the closest to this and even it as i have actually read through a lot of its code is simpler for the player in a lot of ways. It also in its forum generates a lot of questions on how to succeed and not die. So moving on yes i want feedback to the game and its balance, but understand i want feedback to the game and its balance on the way it is meant/intended to be played. I recognize as a developer that what you intend for players to do or how to pay and what they actually do are two different things sometimes. Now let me point out an example that im guessing your referring to of me being slightly frustrated with a user, and let me point out what im trying to convey here.

@zdeerzzz

@Parnash

If my fitness is at the bare minimum, I can’t work out more to lose the weight because the game says ‘nah you don’t want to work out as much actually’, and then I just die.

The fitness level in the day planer is like an intensity choice. A obese person may not be able to run 5 miles in one go but they could probably walk .25miles 3 times in a day. My recommendation stop trying to force your character to run five miles and make do with walking .25 miles 3 or 4 times. If your unfit or overweight of course the ai is going to reject most of the more intense exercise options this is common sense. People in real life don’t just suddenly run 5 miles they work up to it first maybe a half mile then a mile then 2 then 4 then 5. The game does not let you just magically do something.

Im sorry to @Parnash if i came across as hostile or aggressive here, but if anything i was frustrated. A mechanic for picking workout intensity was from my point of view being misused and/or miss applied. Here i am trying to explain how to use it and how its being used wrong, in hind sight i may have not done this the best, but is a mechanic broken because the player is using it wrong or not understanding it. Does the mechanic need re balancing because of this also. My point is i’m trying to explain it such that they can use it correctly, and to have a possibly better experience then give me new more accurate feedback on the balance of the mechanic.

Now lets look at probably my worst offender for blaming a players/testers/feedbackers(?)

@zdeerzzz

@Parnash

These things you’re saying in the chat need to be put upfront in the game, when you’re starting. If I make a character that’s basically fat their whole life, it’s instantly a hard mode right out of the gate, and doesn’t tell me why it’s a harder mode.

This is an alpha state, as the sole worker on this i can only work do so many things at once, instructions and hand holding of the player, did not make it high on my list of things to build so far.

Ok as im reading this feedback my notes are more polish more instructions in game. So i think my response is quite appropriate seeing as i have earlier in this tread already admitted to the game being rather complicated and needing to post instructions or a tutorial. His post at this point is little more than inflammatory at this point.

Lets look at one more example

Would it be possible to have the measurements be displayed in metric as a toggle?

Reply

zdeerzzz

Both of those are fixed in 1.2.3, are you playing 1.2.2?

Also as of this moment i will not be making a metric version. That may change in the future. Simply rather spend development time elsewhere.

Reply

Kitsune

Ah, I didn’t notice that there was another update, sorry for taking up your time.

I was absolutely was not frustrated or hostile and felt no need for @Kitsune to apologize for this question. It is 100 percent ligament and a great request. My answer is 100 percent honest its not something i currently want to spend time on, and i did not feel like he was taking up my time and im glad he asked so everyone who didn’t could know the answer.

I have tried to point out and explain how to better use the mechanics in my game when people bring them up and talk about them and have done my best to respond to all the posts. I hope in the future people see some of my comments more as instructions or help in understanding the game, rather than me not hearing their feedback.

Moving on

@RadicalSquidward

That said, I do have to agree with the people who say that it feels like there’s a lack of player agency when it comes to the choices of diet and exercise. Too often it feels like a false choice: either you picked an option that the game was already going to do so it sticks around, or it’s changed on you because that’s not what the game wants. Choices like the character’s reactions to outgrowing clothes or the bodies of party guests feel the most meaningful because there’s (assumed) consequences the player is directly and solely responsible for. Ironically, I believe the best change may be to remove the diet and exercise choices altogether and leave them entirely up to the game, then introduce more ways to nudge the character in the desired direction through random events with player input, and interactions on the day planner which I believe is one of the game’s strongest elements. For example: exercising before eating makes you work up an appetite, school before exercising means your character wants to stretch their legs and go a little longer.

Ok so, im not likely to either remove the ai control/help or make control of these thing fully in the hands of the ai. Reason? Well my previous game Ravenous had it removed from the game entirely, and it just did’t work. There was no realism to a simulation or gratification for having a character with out resistance stuff her face. At that point its a simulation of a character stuffing her face with no strife and then predictably becoming fat. Lets go back even further to the original version of this game, that i never posted here. Where it was full ai control and that was also just as boring because what ever i adjusted the ai to do it did. Meaning again 100% predictably character stuffs his face and becomes fat, to me this is boring. So in this iteration of it its shared control. Some users keep telling me they have “No Control” however what im hearing is people trying to force things to happen that are not realistic, then saying i cant do something. Also I keep seeing people discover hidden mechanics, that i know about already, and have found better and predictable control over what a character does. Example:

@loveshandles

Speaking of which, if anyone’s having trouble making their char gain weight, try not to have them eat until later in the day so they’ll be hungrier and more likely to snack early on.

In other words he is saying like in real life if you wake up and wait to eat till dinner time you will be hungry and probably snack all day. I intended for this to be a mechanic and im delighted to see he found and used it! He played the ai which chooses what to eat like a fiddle and made it do what he wanted.

[firebedashing]

so playin v 1.2.3 and loaded my old save originally from v 1.00 then to 1.2.2 then now. I bring this up as aparently im getting a bug thats already fixed if I under stand the previous chats.

I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.

While running game code:
  File "game/p_work.rpy", line 100, in <module>
  File "game/pfuncs.rpy", line 497, in eventsfire
  File "game/pfuncs.rpy", line 463, in eventfire
  File "game/eventslist_general.rpy", line 11, in vending_machine
AttributeError: 'RevertableDict' object has no attribute 'append'

-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

Full traceback:
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "start_day.rpyc", line 12, in script call
  File "p_work.rpyc", line 100, in script
  File "F:\Games\Bob-Alpha1.2.3-pc\Bob-Alpha1.2.3-pc\renpy\ast.py", line 914, in execute
    renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store)
  File "F:\Games\Bob-Alpha1.2.3-pc\Bob-Alpha1.2.3-pc\renpy\python.py", line 2028, in py_exec_bytecode
    exec bytecode in globals, locals
  File "game/p_work.rpy", line 100, in <module>
  File "game/pfuncs.rpy", line 497, in eventsfire
  File "game/pfuncs.rpy", line 463, in eventfire
  File "game/eventslist_general.rpy", line 11, in vending_machine
AttributeError: 'RevertableDict' object has no attribute 'append'

Windows-8-6.2.9200
Ren'Py 7.3.5.606
Bob Alpha1.2.3
Fri Aug 14 22:38:26 2020

[zdeerzzz]

All saves prior to 1.2 will not work with 1.2 or anything newer.

Edit: let me be more specific if a save originated from a play through before that started before 1.2 it will not work with 1.2 or later versions. Example i start a game in 1.0 save. then load it in 1.1 then save. then try and play it in 1.2, it most definaltly will not work a some point in 1.2, and as far as 1.2.3 it also will not work or and 1.2.3 cannot patch it.

[firebedashing]

ah ok sorry ty for the fast responce

[RadicalSquidward]

@zdeerzzz

So in this iteration of it its shared control. Some users keep telling me they have “No Control” however what im hearing is people trying to force things to happen that are not realistic, then saying i cant do something. Also I keep seeing people discover hidden mechanics, that i know about already, and have found better and predictable control over what a character does. Example:

@loveshandles

Speaking of which, if anyone’s having trouble making their char gain weight, try not to have them eat until later in the day so they’ll be hungrier and more likely to snack early on.

In other words he is saying like in real life if you wake up and wait to eat till dinner time you will be hungry and probably snack all day. I intended for this to be a mechanic and im delighted to see he found and used it! He played the ai which chooses what to eat like a fiddle and made it do what he wanted.

I was advocating for more interactions like that, because although you call it a “hidden mechanic” it’s actually more involved gameplay wise than the diet and exercise. The “Eat More, Exercise Less” options are basically a red herring and that’s why there’s so much player frustration, because it appears like the game-provided method to gain weight isn’t working meanwhile the proper way is obfuscated.

[zdeerzzz]

Again i i think people don’t understand what those options actually are or do. They are in no way a red herring.

@zdeerzzz

@MasterOfLilies

I don’t really understand what the point of choosing your exercise/diet levels is, if the game chooses for you anyway, too.

Your choice does matter! The ai doesn’t chose so much a sanity checks with some rng here. A lot of variables and stats go into the ai’s sainty check. With the rng in place you should be able to some of the time pick options 3 - 4 above what would be “perfect” for your character. Most of the time pick options 1- 2 above. Same with bellow. Now i should note there are definitely cases where you can get locked into 1-2 choices pretty hard. This is from min maxing in certain ways, and unbalancing the character. You guys got yourselves into that mess, and it is possible to get out of it.

I explained a little bit of how or when it would reject a choice here.

In the day planner you set your 6 actions. Eat or exercise being one or multiple of them. With out the eating options its unclear how much to eat or exercise during the action each time it occurs. The main problem i see here is with how people seem to be trying to use them is in trying to for instance exercrise once using a larger intensity, when out of shape for example. rather than twice at half that intensity. As i tried to explain here

@zdeerzzz

@Parnash

If my fitness is at the bare minimum, I can’t work out more to lose the weight because the game says ‘nah you don’t want to work out as much actually’, and then I just die.

The fitness level in the day planer is like an intensity choice. A obese person may not be able to run 5 miles in one go but they could probably walk .25miles 3 times in a day. My recommendation stop trying to force your character to run five miles and make do with walking .25 miles 3 or 4 times. If your unfit or overweight of course the ai is going to reject most of the more intense exercise options this is common sense. People in real life don’t just suddenly run 5 miles they work up to it first maybe a half mile then a mile then 2 then 4 then 5. The game does not let you just magically do something.

There is rng in there, for if it decided to move your choice closer to the ideal one for your character, but you can usually pick about 3 out of the 6 options at any given time and it will probably not change it. The others have a greater chance of it changing it but you could still get lucky and be able to use it. A design choice of the game here is instead of me just removing the unrealistic options, i left them there, and even programmed in a chance it would happen if you picked it. however for the most part it will nudge you back towards the more realistic options.

[Parnash]

@zdeerzzz

Some users keep telling me they have “No Control” however what im hearing is people trying to force things to happen that are not realistic, then saying i cant do something. Also I keep seeing people discover hidden mechanics, that i know about already, and have found better and predictable control over what a character does. Example:

@zdeerzzz

He played the ai which chooses what to eat like a fiddle and made it do what he wanted.

Again, that’s my issue - I’m not forcing the mechanics, I am trying to tweak what I do week-by-week to make it through the game. The game is about the character, and when the AI changes a routine you, the player, set up trying to figure out how the game works, it removes agency from the player. It makes me feel like I’m less playing as the character, and playing someone watching the character and try to get them to do something.

I also understand the desire for realism, but some people might want a little stretched realism.
For example - removing the heating/cooling in the home. To me, it feels a little tacked on. Realistically, if I think it’s hot, I turn on my AC and let it keep me cool, or turn on the fan based on how I feel, not what I see as the temperature. I think having it as a switch, like ‘Turn on temperature control’, and setting it as a cost toggle is a good idea.

@zdeerzzz

A design choice of the game here is instead of me just removing the unrealistic options, i left them there, and even programmed in a chance it would happen if you picked it. however for the most part it will nudge you back towards the more realistic options.

This here, though, is a bad design idea. This gives the illusion of choice. If you want the game to remain realistic, remove options that are completely unrealistic for the time. If my character (and not me) decides their target weight is really low, then they should be trying to push themselves more to lose the weight. Which is the opposite of what is happening, the intensity is being set for less - going from the 2nd lowest to the lowest.

I really want to like this game. It has potential. I just feel like some areas need to be tweaked better to make more sense.

[zdeerzzz]

@Parnash

I also understand the desire for realism, but some people might want a little stretched realism.
For example - removing the heating/cooling in the home. To me, it feels a little tacked on. Realistically, if I think it’s hot, I turn on my AC and let it keep me cool, or turn on the fan based on how I feel, not what I see as the temperature. I think having it as a switch, like ‘Turn on temperature control’, and setting it as a cost toggle is a good idea.

The problem with a cost toggle is it does not factor in out door temperature or character temperature preference, with regards to weight. Cost is also mostly determined by the outdoor temperature anyway. Some insider knowledge while not the most cost effective the default settings will keep all characters happy, meaning while your problem with the mechanic is that you have to micro manage it you have no reason to manage it unless your trying to recover a few dollars in your spending, as the game will never have your character complain about your house temperature with the default settings. This is in the game mostly because i want it there, and have future plans to expand environmental realism and how characters respond to their environment.

[Somchu]

@zdeerzzz

Ok so, im not likely to either remove the ai control/help or make control of these thing fully in the hands of the ai. Reason? Well my previous game Ravenous had it removed from the game entirely, and it just did’t work. There was no realism to a simulation or gratification for having a character with out resistance stuff her face. At that point its a simulation of a character stuffing her face with no strife and then predictably becoming fat. Lets go back even further to the original version of this game, that i never posted here. Where it was full ai control and that was also just as boring because what ever i adjusted the ai to do it did. Meaning again 100% predictably character stuffs his face and becomes fat, to me this is boring. So in this iteration of it its shared control. Some users keep telling me they have “No Control” however what im hearing is people trying to force things to happen that are not realistic, then saying i cant do something.

I do have a couple possible suggestions to help emphasize the idea that this game has “shared control” rather than “no control,” in the form of more interactions. Perhaps there can be more events throughout the day where the AI can express how it feels to the player so that we can have a better understanding of how to influence it to get what we want. Alternatively, perhaps there can be random events throughout the day (Depending on what is scheduled) that gives the player the choice to nudge the AI in a different direction.

On an unrelated note, I have noticed that around certain weights with certain body types (pencil at 327 lbs, for instance), you will eventually reach a point that your different body parts have such large differences in sizes that it becomes impossible to wear clothes, as one size is too small and the next size up is too big. At that point it seems like your character can only get so large before the game is put to a very abrupt stop, which seems less than ideal for a game like this. Perhaps there could be some sort of option to loosen the upper half of pants/lower half of clothes by having the character not bother buttoning/tugging down if there are no other options for clothing.

One more suggestion that could feed into both of the topics mentioned could be a schedule option to have the character just stay at home and/or do whatever they feel like. This could both make way for more interaction events as well as let the game continue even if the character isn’t able to leave the house (At least until they either bulk up or slim down enough to fit into a new pair of clothing).

[zdeerzzz]

@Somchu

On an unrelated note, I have noticed that around certain weights with certain body types (pencil at 327 lbs, for instance), you will eventually reach a point that your different body parts have such large differences in sizes that it becomes impossible to wear clothes, as one size is too small and the next size up is too big. At that point it seems like your character can only get so large before the game is put to a very abrupt stop, which seems less than ideal for a game like this. Perhaps there could be some sort of option to loosen the upper half of pants/lower half of clothes by having the character not bother buttoning/tugging down if there are no other options for clothing.

I had predicted that might happen with the pencil body shape option. I have not had a chance to play that one yet all the way out clothing is about the only thing body shape effects at the moment other than description and stats to the user. i think i am going to have to make a clothes size table for each body shape for the most part so all body shapes are playable. Thanks for confirming my hypothesis.

Clothing in the plus size in the real world is super random when it comes to sizing and shape. Sorta leaving the door open to any semi realistic solution to fitment for characters.